Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2024/25

[gaz5]

To pander to his audience. To be sectarian it would need to display prejudice towards another faith. I don’t think his gesture ticks that box.

Seriously, you're one of the few Rangers fans on here that comes across well consistently, but please stop with this line of defence for your own credibility, it's a massive own goal.

There's no reason for anyone connected to Rangers to pretend to be playing the flute inside Ibrox other than as a wink and a nod to sectarianism.

Context is everything.

Making a flute gesture in most places isn't directly sectarian (on that you're right), making a flute gesture at Ibrox, to pander to the hordes singing about bouncing on Catholics every week, with the history and connotation of the gesture in that context, 100% sectarian.

[Buckets]

6 hours ago, AJF said:

That’s the thing though, the OO itself is not an anti catholic hate group (no laughing at the back please).

I had it explained to me in my younger years from someone in it that said while they are obviously pro-Protestant faith, there is no official stance on being anti-Catholic and they believe there should be tolerance of differing religions whilst disagreeing with them. The overriding purpose was to promote a belief in their god and Protestant ascendancy. They obviously acknowledge a large portion of members sadly will hold sectarian beliefs, but again, not all of them do which is why I don’t think the gesture alone would be considered sectarian.

I mentioned a criminal act because if it was deemed a sectarian gesture then whoever done it would be guilty of abusive sectarian behaviour which I believe is a criminal offence in Scotland?

The protestant "ascendancy" alone is surely bigoted/sectarian? It was a period where Irish people had their lands stolen from them and were banned from speaking their language, practicing their religion, or having the right to vote. Anyone that thinks that kind of thing is OK or joins an organisation to support this is certainly bigoted. Its about supremacy it's not exactly hidden. When Rangers play up to the orange stuff it makes it harder for the decent fans to call it out because it then becomes a part of the football club rather than a section of hard-core fans. 

I doubt Gazza could care less about the Orange Order or Catholics and Protestants but what do you expect when he knows Rangers fans and the hard right England fans will lap it up. 

[Buddie Holly]

disgusting to see so many drunken parents encouraging their weans into a life of hooliganism

the way those mini thugs invaded the park at full time was like watching the end of the hibs cup final again 

time for social work to step in and remove the kids from their vile parents before it’s too late

[Drew Brees]

 

[RandomGuy.]

5 hours ago, AJF said:

To pander to his audience. To be sectarian it would need to display prejudice towards another faith. I don’t think his gesture ticks that box.

I wonder what the thousands of young Rangers fans seeing that celebration for the first time are being told it stands for?

And the circle will begin anew with the ones told the truth, as their young minds see a Rangers legend, absolutely adored by 50,000 fans, get applauded and cheered for a public symbol of sectarianism. 

Normalising, and encouraging, it is wrong, but both Old Firm sides, both club and supporter, seems to allow it to continue endlessly to promote the "brand". You're just yet another fine example of why it continues. A "sensible" mind who knows it's wrong, but instead puts his efforts into making excuses for those who don't based on the club you support.

Edited March 27, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[kingjoey]

The photo is probably best summed up as sad and pathetic, as are the fellow players who seem to be smiling along with his antics.

[Dons_1988]

8 hours ago, AJF said:

Well, that may be the case. I like to think that I’m not too indoctrinated to the extent I lose any critical thought. I just believe that this gesture fails any test to be deemed sectarian going by any definition of the term.

Could I be wrong? Yes, and as today has proved, many will disagree. It was described as semantics earlier and I don’t think that’s inaccurate either. I know what Gascoigne done was wrong, there no complaints there. I just don’t feel it was sectarian and that’s my only point here.

I think you see rangers as just a normal club that happens to have some unsavoury people and incidents attached to it, which the club is a victim of.

But there’s a long, long list of incidents from fans, players and the club itself that you can talk away, in isolation, as not passing the sectarian test. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

8 hours ago, AJF said:

Well, that may be the case. I like to think that I’m not too indoctrinated to the extent I lose any critical thought. I just believe that this gesture fails any test to be deemed sectarian going by any definition of the term.

 

You’re either in denial or extremely thick.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

15 hours ago, stressball said:

Got to love bigoted alcoholics…

Did he pretend to batter his wife as well, the cheeky chappy.

[Antony]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I wonder what the thousands of young Rangers fans seeing that celebration for the first time are being told it stands for?

And the circle will begin anew with the ones told the truth, as their young minds see a Rangers legend, absolutely adored by 50,000 fans, get applauded and cheered for a public symbol of sectarianism. 

Normalising, and encouraging, it is wrong, but both Old Firm sides, both club and supporter, seems to allow it to continue endlessly to promote the "brand". You're just yet another fine example of why it continues. A "sensible" mind who knows it's wrong, but instead puts his efforts into making excuses for those who don't based on the club you support.

How do Celtic FC encourage anti-protestant bigotry?There's a number of Celtic fans who have outed themselves as being as bad as anyone over the years but constantly refusing to separate anti-catholicism from Irish republicanism/anti imperialism is a big problem in Scotland and arguably one of the reasons why the 2 won't be tackled. The two things may not be needed in 21st century Scotland but they are 2 different issues with different histories. I can see why "ugly sisters" and "arse cheeks" resonates with a lot of people but when it comes to addressing the issues we can't just say "one is as bad as the other, throw them in the sea". This attitude means everything needs to be done even handedly. It's why the word to describe Rangers fans is being deemed as sectarian, so that it's not seen as biased when anti-Catholic slurs are clamped down on. And it's maybe why harsher punishments haven't been looked at for some of Rangers chanting because they would need to do the same for Celtic's Republican songs which would be a more complex issue. 

If people want to say the 2 clubs are as bad as each other from a football point of view then that's fine but in terms of the 2 societal issues it's not really 2 sides of the same coin. What's worse comes down to your own morals but they are very different issues that need handled differently. 

[Guest]

Shocked to see Rangers fans falling over themselves to excuse that bigot wasters actions.

ETA.
Claims he regrets his sectarian actions but the horde claiming that he wasn't being sectarian [emoji23]

[Squonk]

37 minutes ago, Antony said:

How do Celtic FC encourage anti-protestant bigotry?There's a number of Celtic fans who have outed themselves as being as bad as anyone over the years but constantly refusing to separate anti-catholicism from Irish republicanism/anti imperialism is a big problem in Scotland and arguably one of the reasons why the 2 won't be tackled. The two things may not be needed in 21st century Scotland but they are 2 different issues with different histories. I can see why "ugly sisters" and "arse cheeks" resonates with a lot of people but when it comes to addressing the issues we can't just say "one is as bad as the other, throw them in the sea". This attitude means everything needs to be done even handedly. It's why the word to describe Rangers fans is being deemed as sectarian, so that it's not seen as biased when anti-Catholic slurs are clamped down on. And it's maybe why harsher punishments haven't been looked at for some of Rangers chanting because they would need to do the same for Celtic's Republican songs which would be a more complex issue. 

If people want to say the 2 clubs are as bad as each other from a football point of view then that's fine but in terms of the 2 societal issues it's not really 2 sides of the same coin. What's worse comes down to your own morals but they are very different issues that need handled differently. 

While I appreciate your argument, I will never for the life of me understand why Celtic's away support should feel compelled to mimic freedom fighters/terrorists firing bullets at the home fans in my club's stadium during a sporting event involving 22 people chasing a bag of air round a field.

Back on topic, The Rangers* fans in sectarian bigotry denial shocker! 

[RandomGuy.]

51 minutes ago, Antony said:

How do Celtic FC encourage anti-protestant bigotry?

Your club literally led with a tagline of "this is our city" at the same time as revelling in being a "Catholic club".

Any form of research shows you what those words mean in Glasgow in a Catholic v Protestant context.

Your fans still regularly sing "Roamin in the Gloamin" too, which the club does nothing about.

That's ignoring the fact that Celtic put as much effort into making sure they have the Irish tricolor on their strip in some form as Rangers do to have Orange in their team wear. Both clubs know the Catholic v Protestant angle makes them money so both promote it.

Trying to excuse yourselves from a two way rivalry that's encouraged sectarianism/bigotry from both sides for decades is just a pathetic attempt at pretending its not your problem to solve.

Edited March 27, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[Highlandmagar]

On 24/03/2022 at 14:50, AB1872 said:

You know why. 

We are Her Britannic Majesty’s XI 

Who didn't pay Her Britannic Majesty's taxes.

[williemillersmoustache]

No premiership card this weekend and yet the the Rangers* still manage to humiliate and disgrace themselves in equal measure.  Fair play. 

[The_Kincardine]

15 hours ago, AJF said:

That’s the thing though, the OO itself is not an anti catholic hate group (no laughing at the back please).

I had it explained to me in my younger years from someone in it that said while they are obviously pro-Protestant faith, there is no official stance on being anti-Catholic and they believe there should be tolerance of differing religions whilst disagreeing with them. The overriding purpose was to promote a belief in their god and Protestant ascendancy.

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

[Pocketman]

13 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

 

[The_Kincardine]

2 hours ago, Antony said:

How do Celtic FC encourage anti-protestant bigotry?There's a number of Celtic fans who have outed themselves as being as bad as anyone over the years but constantly refusing to separate anti-catholicism from Irish republicanism/anti imperialism is a big problem in Scotland

When you say that supporters of your club take a stand on 'anti imperialism' to what extent do they focus on Scotland as, pound for pound, the most Empire-minded - and easily the most 'slavey' - region of Europe in modern times?  What focus do you give on Ireland's role - as part of the unitary nation of the United Kingdom since 1801 - in helping build Empire through its soldiers, sailors, civil servants, merchants, doctors, priests, missionaries, merchants and traders?

[williemillersmoustache]

Fire it into the sun, sink it to the bottom of the deepest ocean or bury it deep down in the depths of the most cavernous of mines, seal it with explosives, concrete over the entrance and destroy all evidence it was ever there, but get this steaming pile of rotten tinpot shite away from my football. 

[Jinky67]

29 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

One of the very first things the OO started to do way back in the 19th century was to campaign pro actively against any legislation allowing Catholic worship.

Please explain how the f**k that isn’t anti-Catholic? 

Anyone defending the existence of this organisation especially in the 21st century needs to take themselves away and launch themselves in the sea.

Segregation, exclusivity based on religion is the very foundation sectarian grows from and thrives in.

The once believed fair minded Rangers fans on this forum have properly let themselves down here….

Edited March 27, 2022 by Jinky67