Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2024/25

[Bairnardo]

Quite why anyone thinks a select number of teams who already have a demonstrable advantage (they can afford a B team) should be handed a quite literal competitive advantage over the rest of the league, is any sensible persons guess.

Thats Old Firm privilege for you.

The gaslighting involved in trying to convince us all its actually for our benefit is vile.

[G51]

4 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

If you don't think that the presence of the B teams in the LL is but step 1 of a much wider plan for them then you've not been listening. If you don't think they are already causing immense resentment around tiers 5 and 6 then again, I don't think you've been listening. You may have also noticed that winning is already a secondary objective for the 3 x B teams.

Having B teams in pyramids undermines them yes, that's self-evident.

Despite your feeble attempt at a barb in the last line, the sad fact is, it's not an original, i.e. new, argument. Sensible people have been saying it for years. An ever decreasing number of clubs hoarding an ever increasing number of young players (in whatever guise) is bad for the game. By whatever metric you choose to use; elite or otherwise.

I'm sure that B teams in the pyramid is part of a much wider plan for them. What that plan is, is anyone's guess. Personally, I think the most likely outcome that the Super League will win it's battle vs UEFA, the superclubs will join it and the Old Firm will join an equivalent competition for lesser lights. In effect, something much like what is currently happening in American college sports. Once that happens, the B teams will effectively die off because there will no longer be a need for them.

I also think if you asked Tier 5 and Tier 6 what irks them the most, B teams or the absolutely appalling relegation/promotion system from the SPFL and LL, they'd focus on the latter.

Winning is a secondary objective for them, but as they don't form part of the league table when it comes to handing out prizes, that doesn't really matter.

FWIW, I would also agree that clubs holding on to too many young players isn't good for the game or the players, but I also see why it happens. Personally, I would scrap all club academies under 16, expand the Performance Schools and then hold a draft (in reverse order) so that clubs can have a fairer opportunity to secure elite talent. But the problem you've got is that a lot of diddy clubs are also exceptionally bad at managing talented young players, so while that's a fairer solution for clubs, it's a much worse solution for the players.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

5 minutes ago, G51 said:

I'm sure that B teams in the pyramid is part of a much wider plan for them. What that plan is, is anyone's guess. Personally, I think the most likely outcome that the Super League will win it's battle vs UEFA, the superclubs will join it and the Old Firm will join an equivalent competition for lesser lights. In effect, something much like what is currently happening in American college sports. Once that happens, the B teams will effectively die off because there will no longer be a need for them.

I also think if you asked Tier 5 and Tier 6 what irks them the most, B teams or the absolutely appalling relegation/promotion system from the SPFL and LL, they'd focus on the latter.

Winning is a secondary objective for them, but as they don't form part of the league table when it comes to handing out prizes, that doesn't really matter.

FWIW, I would also agree that clubs holding on to too many young players isn't good for the game or the players, but I also see why it happens. Personally, I would scrap all club academies under 16, expand the Performance Schools and then hold a draft (in reverse order) so that clubs can have a fairer opportunity to secure elite talent. But the problem you've got is that a lot of diddy clubs are also exceptionally bad at managing talented young players, so while that's a fairer solution for clubs, it's a much worse solution for the players.

• Sadly I think you are right about the Super Leagues(s), but I think that a major reason the OF want B teams is so they can also keep a side playing in Scotland.
• Possibly, but they see the two as intertwined - if the league can run with 19, why not promote 3 from EOS/WOS?
• It matters to the rest of the league who can face wildly differing lineups from week to week, thus undermining the competition.
• I actually think the last paragraph is a fantastic idea, but would obviously never be accepted by players/agents "My client is probably the 3rd best young player in Scotland, so you're sending him to Albion Rovers!" Also they'd just get transferred at the first opportunity upwards. You would need a completely authoritarian SFA controlling all the coaches and player registrations which the clubs would never thole.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

• Sadly I think you are right about the Super Leagues(s), but I think that a major reason the OF want B teams is so they can also keep a side playing in Scotland.
• Possibly, but they see the two as intertwined - if the league can run with 19, why not promote 3 from EOS/WOS?
• It matters to the rest of the league who can face wildly differing lineups from week to week, thus undermining the competition.
• I actually think the last paragraph is a fantastic idea, but would obviously never be accepted by players/agents "My client is probably the 3rd best young player in Scotland, so you're sending him to Albion Rovers!" Also they'd just get transferred at the first opportunity upwards. You would need a completely authoritarian SFA controlling all the coaches and player registrations which the clubs would never thole.

I don't see what advantage there is to the Old Firm continuing to keep a team playing in Scotland if they were playing against bigger opponents every week. Such a scenario would either result in the OF continuing to play in the Premiership with the current teams (and this new competition replacing UEFA's competition), or the OF leaving the Premiership to play a 40-odd game season in the new league. Either way, I don't see why they'd keep a B team around to continue to enter in Scottish league competition.

I don't think they do - certainly not when it comes to the issue of SPFL self-preservation, which is keeping much larger Tier 6 clubs out at the expense of tiny Tier 4 teams. Talk about the integrity of the pyramid.

The rest of the league can face wildly differing line-ups whether B teams play or not. In any case, Rangers B team last year was remarkably consistent for selection. I'd be amazed if it used more than 20 players across the season, comparable to most sides.

In the draft idea, it would only be open to Premiership clubs, and the contract terms would be collectively bargained between the SPFL/SFA and the players union. In the event of a team being relegated, the players contract would automatically transfer (for free) to the promoted club. But the reason I brought it up was to illustrate the point that your perspective on this depends on what you feel is the biggest priority. The best interests of players, clubs, national teams and other stakeholders rarely align. Such a scenario would be much better for clubs and lead to a much more competitive league. But the players would hate it, we'd lose a chunk of our good ones to England and the ones we kept wouldn't fulfill their potential. There is no solution that will satisfy everyone here, because everyone values different things differently.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

25 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

• I actually think the last paragraph is a fantastic idea, but would obviously never be accepted by players/agents "My client is probably the 3rd best young player in Scotland, so you're sending him to Albion Rovers!" Also they'd just get transferred at the first opportunity upwards. You would need a completely authoritarian SFA controlling all the coaches and player registrations which the clubs would never thole.

I don't see the issue with them being transferred immediately upwards. Bottom of the SPFL Cowdenbeath get first pick at the draft for their LL challenge. Immediately pick Lowry then sell him to Sevco for £200,000. Everyone's a winner. Or, in the unlikely even he isn't sold off instantly, he gets a year playing first team, competitive football at the same level he'll be getting it for Sevco B anyway

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Orbix said:

Me as well to be clear. The B team idea I think works to alleviate an immediate problem in the context of the SPFL and its place in European football but long term it’s unworkable. 

B teams allow Rangers/Celtic to hoard young players with the promise of senior football and a pathway into their first team, as can be shown by the fact both clubs are just signing and, and every, 16yo in the country with a hint of potential. 

Pretending it's anything else is just purposely being obtuse because you don't want to admit that, yet again, the authorities have handed the OF an advantage over other clubs.

[G51]

9 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I don't see the issue with them being transferred immediately upwards. Bottom of the SPFL Cowdenbeath get first pick at the draft for their LL challenge. Immediately pick Lowry then sell him to Sevco for £200,000. Everyone's a winner. Or, in the unlikely even he isn't sold off instantly, he gets a year playing first team, competitive football at the same level he'll be getting it for Sevco B anyway

It's one thing playing for Rangers B in the fifth tier while still making use of elite facilities and elite coaching.

It's another thing altogether sending the best young player in the country to go and play for Maurice Ross.

This idea would only work if it was limited to sides that actually have the facilities and coaches to develop players. Which is why it would have to be Premiership only.

[Orbix]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

B teams allow Rangers/Celtic to hoard young players with the promise of senior football and a pathway into their first team, as can be shown by the fact both clubs are just signing and, and every, 16yo in the country with a hint of potential. 

Pretending it's anything else is just purposely being obtuse because you don't want to admit that, yet again, the authorities have handed the OF an advantage over other clubs.

This is just what I said in my post, written as an accusation

[Bairnardo]

It's one thing playing for Rangers B in the fifth tier while still making use of elite facilities and elite coaching.
It's another thing altogether sending the best young player in the country to go and play for Maurice Ross.
This idea would only work if it was limited to sides that actually have the facilities and coaches to develop players. Which is why it would have to be Premiership only.

So you want to use this competitive advantage handed to you to also hoard all the best coaching talent aswell.....

But it's for the good of the rest of us

[Orbix]

12 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

So you want to use this competitive advantage handed to you to also hoard all the best coaching talent aswell.....

But it's for the good of the rest of us

I don’t know if I could look down the list of the last five Celtic and Rangers managers and their coaching staff and say hand on heart that either team were hoarding talent.

[G51]

25 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

So you want to use this competitive advantage handed to you to also hoard all the best coaching talent aswell.....

But it's for the good of the rest of us

I know that actually reading things and understanding them is extremely difficult for moron centrist libs, but fucking hell mate

 

[Squonk]

To my mind, the SPFL is a trade organisation that is supposed to function as a co-operative for the benefit of all clubs, not just those with the biggest support. This means that either all clubs in the Premiership should have B teams in a lower league, or no clubs should have B teams in a lower league. Similarly, either all clubs must arrange lucrative friendlies a few short weeks into a brand new season, thus avoiding an instant disparity in league games played, or none of them should be allowed to do so. Instead though, let's handicap the diddy clubs while simultaneously slaughtering them for offering little or no competition to the clubs who already have humongous financial advantages.

[G51]

the spfl is a trade organisation, i am very smart

[Squonk]

7 minutes ago, G51 said:

 i am very smart

The evidence in your posts suggests otherwise.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Squonk

[G51]

39 minutes ago, Squonk said:

The evidence in your posts suggests otherwise.

whats a trade organisation mate

[Squonk]

9 minutes ago, G51 said:

whats a trade organisation mate

Its main function is to provide advice on the use of punctuation. You should try it.

What's a mate?

[G51]

1 minute ago, Squonk said:

What's a mate?

yeah didn't think you'd know what that was tbf

[Squonk]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

yeah didn't think you'd know what that was tbf

I know it's not you, so kindly refrain from calling me it.

[Derry Alli]

4 minutes ago, G51 said:

yeah didn't think you'd know what that was tbf

[bennett]

6 hours ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

8 sensible posts in a row - da f**k is aw that aboot!!

That's Randomguy levels of jinxing things.