RedLichtie86 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 There's still a point in going to plenty games where the sides are well matched. You're actually dead right about the Celtic ones though. They genuinely are pretty pointless. It must be shit following them.Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 49 minutes ago, OSP said: Doesn't look like there's much point going to any league matches this year lads. According to some on here, we should just post the Annual Turnover for each club, and the order of that decides the team's position in the league. Saves all that time and energy of actually playing some matches... It's so easy to write this off when it's your team who benefit from it isn't it? Carry on pretending it's cos you're Celtic and just naturally better than everyone else with a better coach and everything if it makes you feel better. And let's just ignore the fact that your own manager was highlighting the financial gulf between Celtic and PSG, Barca etc making it nearly impossible to compete when that argument suited. I understand it's not something Celtic fans, or the media want to acknowledge, as in a way it undermines any successes you have domestically, but its a fact, and it's ruined any competitive aspect in our game. We need a self-imposed (as in by the league) squad salary cap in our sport, but the fact is Celtic and possibly rangers would never agree to it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: It's so easy to write this off when it's your team who benefit from it isn't it? Carry on pretending it's cos you're Celtic and just naturally better than everyone else with a better coach and everything if it makes you feel better. And let's just ignore the fact that your own manager was highlighting the financial gulf between Celtic and PSG, Barca etc making it nearly impossible to compete when that argument suited. I understand it's not something Celtic fans, or the media want to acknowledge, as in a way it undermines any successes you have domestically, but its a fact, and it's ruined any competitive aspect in our game. We need a self-imposed (as in by the league) squad salary cap in our sport, but the fact is Celtic and possibly rangers would never agree to it. Get the feeling St Johnstone would be a bit miffed also if we set a salary cap at a level to enable Clyde to compete with them. Edited July 25, 2018 by The OP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSP Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, PauloPerth said: It's so easy to write this off when it's your team who benefit from it isn't it? Carry on pretending it's cos you're Celtic and just naturally better than everyone else with a better coach and everything if it makes you feel better. And let's just ignore the fact that your own manager was highlighting the financial gulf between Celtic and PSG, Barca etc making it nearly impossible to compete when that argument suited. I understand it's not something Celtic fans, or the media want to acknowledge, as in a way it undermines any successes you have domestically, but its a fact, and it's ruined any competitive aspect in our game. We need a self-imposed (as in by the league) squad salary cap in our sport, but the fact is Celtic and possibly rangers would never agree to it. At no stage whatsoever have I claimed that Celtic don't benefit from having access to more funds than other teams. In much the same way that St Johnstone benefit from having access to more funds than the likes of East Fife or Cowdenbeath. And PSG and Barcelona benefit from having more than Celtic. However the attitude that financial status instantly translates into automatic success is an easy excuse to use. If that was truly the case, we would never have seen the likes of Dundee United, Hearts or Hibs relegated in recent years. Or Celtic beating Barcelona in a one off match. Or Clyde handing us our arses a few years ago in the Scottish. Don't get me wrong, it makes it harder, no doubt. But the joy in football is that sometimes anything can happen. Some in here seem to have lost sight of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 57 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said: 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: There's still a point in going to plenty games where the sides are well matched. You're actually dead right about the Celtic ones though. They genuinely are pretty pointless. It must be shit following them. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Believe me Lichtie. I know that I'm doing something worthwhile if you find what I'm saying tedious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 wastecoatwilly might actually be the thickest c**t on this website. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, The OP said: Get the feeling St Johnstone would be a bit miffed also if we set a salary cap at a level to enable Clyde to compete with them. Yes, the amount would be the tricky aspect. But I don't think using Clyde is a good comparison, it would have to be other full time clubs. I'd take the average total first team salary budget of teams 2nd - 11th in the Premiership as a starting point. Managers/coaching/ facilities/ training/sports science and all other support budgets would be unrestricted so the bigger clubs would still hold advantages. I just think the fact that we pay money to watch a professional sport in which, realistically, only one team (possibly two if rangers sort themselves out) is ever going to win it, is nonsense. We're being cheated. It goes against what a sporting competition is. And yes, I'd have the same in the champions league. I acknowledge that none of this is ever going to happen! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, OSP said: At no stage whatsoever have I claimed that Celtic don't benefit from having access to more funds than other teams. In much the same way that St Johnstone benefit from having access to more funds than the likes of East Fife or Cowdenbeath. And PSG and Barcelona benefit from having more than Celtic. However the attitude that financial status instantly translates into automatic success is an easy excuse to use. If that was truly the case, we would never have seen the likes of Dundee United, Hearts or Hibs relegated in recent years. Or Celtic beating Barcelona in a one off match. Or Clyde handing us our arses a few years ago in the Scottish. Don't get me wrong, it makes it harder, no doubt. But the joy in football is that sometimes anything can happen. Some in here seem to have lost sight of that. I agree there will always be shocks and upsets, generally in one off matches, but exactly what you say 'the joy in football is that sometimes anything can happen' is increasingly being removed. Do you really think Celtic being so far ahead that they go a season unbeaten, win every domestic trophy for 2 seasons on the trot with no end in sight, is healthy? Does it make the sport interesting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSP Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: I agree there will always be shocks and upsets, generally in one off matches, but exactly what you say 'the joy in football is that sometimes anything can happen' is increasingly being removed. Do you really think Celtic being so far ahead that they go a season unbeaten, win every domestic trophy for 2 seasons on the trot with no end in sight, is healthy? Does it make the sport interesting? I'm biased mate. I'm a Celtic fan who grew up through the 90's. I'll thoroughly enjoy us winning in everything in sight for many years to come if it happens. So it makes it more interesting to me. What it doesn't do is make it more interesting to others, and I completely get your point there. As much as I wanted Celtic to win them, it was still enjoyable to see other teams get success in recent years in the cups outside of the usual suspects. It just annoys me when some fans make such a point about finances that they make out it's barely worthwhile those with less resources even turn up. We're in the Champions League against teams that spend more on goalkeepers who couldn't hold their breath never mind a shot than we do on our entire squad. Is that a shite state of affairs that I would prefer not to be the case? - Yes! Does it mean I shouldn't enjoy my team playing in that competition? - No! Does it mean I should greet about it at every opportunity? - No! Does it mean I can be a hypocrite and complain about how much money these clubs have, whilst also not wanting other clubs in Scotland to have greater resources? - Ye... I mean NO! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: "Mythical gap" everyone. He said "mythical gap"! Celtic make 30 million Celtic spend 30 million,how much of that 30 million is in the starting 11? We just watched a feast of football from the world cup,the game within the game,has France and Croatia got the biggest budget or the most expensive players? Every club starts at zero each season. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, OSP said: I'm biased mate. I'm a Celtic fan who grew up through the 90's. I'll thoroughly enjoy us winning in everything in sight for many years to come if it happens. So it makes it more interesting to me. What it doesn't do is make it more interesting to others, and I completely get your point there. As much as I wanted Celtic to win them, it was still enjoyable to see other teams get success in recent years in the cups outside of the usual suspects. It just annoys me when some fans make such a point about finances that they make out it's barely worthwhile those with less resources even turn up. We're in the Champions League against teams that spend more on goalkeepers who couldn't hold their breath never mind a shot than we do on our entire squad. Is that a shite state of affairs that I would prefer not to be the case? - Yes! Does it mean I shouldn't enjoy my team playing in that competition? - No! Does it mean I should greet about it at every opportunity? - No! Does it mean I can be a hypocrite and complain about how much money these clubs have, whilst also not wanting other clubs in Scotland to have greater resources? - Ye... I mean NO! Fair points. But remember that the champions league is a bonus competition for you, not your bread and butter. So if you're papped out of it by richer clubs you still get to see your club win 2-3 trophies a season. I don't want to go all Richard Gere on you here (certainly not in the gerbil sense), but "we ain't got nothing else". I'm not crying out to see my team win 2-3 trophies a season (maybe for one season would be alright), but I would like us to stand an outside sporting chance in the main competition we're in during the occasional periods we have put together a good side. And other seasons when we're poorer, Motherwell, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Inverness, as well as the OF clubs etc have a chance of achieving something when they put together strong teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Celtic make 30 million Celtic spend 30 million,how much of that 30 million is in the starting 11? We just watched a feast of football from the world cup,the game within the game,has France and Croatia got the biggest budget or the most expensive players? Every club starts at zero each season.France probably do have the most expensive players. Not really sure what your point is here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I think the reason people bleat about budgets with Manchester City and PSG is because they haven't pulled ahead of most of Europe in the traditional manner. PSG have had their moments (seem to remember them making a semi in the mid-90s when they had George Weah) but Man City in particular have simply won the lottery. Celtic's route to success in Scotland is a lot more traditional and understandable, by (for over 100 years) being one of the most popular clubs in the country's biggest city. I don't think there is as much bitterness about Barcelona or Bayern as there is with Man City and PSG. Barca and Bayern have always had large fanbases and hail from major cities in European powerhouses. It wouldn't be logical to expect them to limit their potential to give Celtic and Steaua Bucharest a leg-up. I also don't think it is really fair to limit player's ability to command substantial salaries, given they provide the entertainment punters pay to see. Like anyone else, they deserve a salary which is in line with their value to the companies for which they work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 45 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Celtic make 30 million Celtic spend 30 million,how much of that 30 million is in the starting 11? We just watched a feast of football from the world cup,the game within the game,has France and Croatia got the biggest budget or the most expensive players? Every club starts at zero each season. The World Cup was enjoyable because it was a break from teams being able to buy success. If it was along the format you love, where money is king, then Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Germany, Italy, France would be untouchable every tournament. Yes in the end France won it because they had the best players, but we saw smaller countries making more of an impact than a lot of the traditional big guns because of football, not because of money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said: 33 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Celtic make 30 million Celtic spend 30 million,how much of that 30 million is in the starting 11? We just watched a feast of football from the world cup,the game within the game,has France and Croatia got the biggest budget or the most expensive players? Every club starts at zero each season. France probably do have the most expensive players. Not really sure what your point is here. They're too many unknowns to make the game predictable,PSG can go out and cherry pick the best of the best but it wouldn't guarantee them success. Neymar cost £200 million does that make him the best player in the world no it doesn't it just makes him the most expensive in the world with an attitude that stinks. Messi cost Barcelona nothing his talent is there for everybody to see. Man city bought Sinclair for £7 million, Celtic buy him for £3.5 million did Celtic get half the player Man city had? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 This thread is about coefficient points,money tennis can start his own thread on money in the game but he prefers to spoil every thread with his constant obsession. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Bit of a chicken & the egg scenario when it comes to the European Cup era compared to the Champions League. In the European Cup era bigger clubs had bigger budgets but they also worked within the constraints of the 3 Foreigner Rule and less freedom of movement. Once the constraints were taken away in the mid 90s, money talks and the rich got richer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDanger27 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 So.........What’s happening with the coefficient? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, McDanger27 said: So......... What’s happening with the coefficient? Probably not much, given the Europa league draws. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, The OP said: Probably not much, given the Europa league draws. Scotland went down a place to 26th with our terrific start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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