DublinMagyar Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Hearing Cat Boyd, who despises Labour will be speaking at this Momentum conference, sorry, fringe event. Disgraceful. Labor most certainly are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 1 hour ago, BerwickMad said: Hearing Cat Boyd, who despises Labour will be speaking at this Momentum conference, sorry, fringe event. Disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Crrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnggggeeeee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Still wid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Absolutely. She'd have no trouble getting a RISE from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 11 hours ago, BerwickMad said: Hearing Cat Boyd, who despises Labour will be speaking at this Momentum conference, sorry, fringe event. Disgraceful. I get the impression that most of the PLP despise Labour; they certainly seem determined to do everything possible to screw up any chance of electoral victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I get the impression that most of the PLP despise Labour; they certainly seem determined to do everything possible to screw up any chance of electoral victory. Quite the opposite IMO. I await your tears about the 'nasty MSM' when Corbyn wins and a catastrophic defeat follows. Everyone's fault but his own no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Just now, BerwickMad said: Quite the opposite IMO. I await your tears about the 'nasty MSM' when Corbyn wins and a catastrophic defeat follows. Everyone's fault but his own no doubt. Well they seem to me intent on destroying Labour. Two questions for you: given the PLP have forced this leadership contest and that there is going to be an open, democratic leadership election; do you think Labour MPs should unite behind whoever is elected leader? Do you think they will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Have I misinterpreted WTM's picture or is Cat Boyd sarcastically replying lovely stuff to that tweet evidence she doesn't support independence? Also very interesting BerwickMad doesn't want people critical of the Labour Party being given platforms to speak at their events. No dissent allowed in his party. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Have I misinterpreted WTM's picture or is Cat Boyd sarcastically replying lovely stuff to that tweet evidence she doesn't support independence? Also very interesting BerwickMad doesn't want people critical of the Labour Party being given platforms to speak at their events. No dissent allowed in his party. Hmm. I have no problem with criticism at all. However it's a party conference. Momentum are claiming it's a fringe event but have invited a speaker who actively campaigns against Labour. People are thrown out of the party for campaigning against Labour candidates, but momentum think it's acceptable to have one speaking at a 'fringe' event. I don't. Personally, I think the people who have a problem with criticism generally are the Corbyn/Momentum supporters who in the main seem to have surrounded themselves in this sort of social media bubble where they read about themselves, listen to themselves and talk to themselves. They seem to put any critical analysis down to the big bad MSM and hold onto bizarre conspiracy theories. It's the same type thing as the more extreme elements of the Yes movement, the 'who needs experts anyway' anti-EU lot, and what you see in America with Donald Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Well they seem to me intent on destroying Labour. Two questions for you: given the PLP have forced this leadership contest and that there is going to be an open, democratic leadership election; do you think Labour MPs should unite behind whoever is elected leader? Do you think they will? They should, but I think Corbyn needs to listen to the PLP and improve on the way he communicates with them and works with them. If he continues to act as he has (if they are to be believed), then he can't just expect everyone to fall in behind him. He needs to learn the lessons and change. The people voting in this leadership election may ignore the PLP, not believe them, or simply only care about Corbyn's overall principles and don't care how it all works in Westminster. The PLP have to work under him, so they have every right to form their own opinion even if it differs with the membership as a whole. They will probably see themselves as better informed on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Have I misinterpreted WTM's picture or is Cat Boyd sarcastically replying lovely stuff to that tweet evidence she doesn't support independence? That's certainly the impression I got. Either way inviting someone who despises Labour to a fringe conference event is an odd choice. My biggest concern with a lot of the Corbyn supporters (though not all) is the attempt to turn Labour into a far-left echo chamber. As paranoid as this sounds I'm starting to feel that they don't actually want moderates in the party any more. I do wonder where they think the support to win the next election is coming from if they not only alienate potential Lib Dem and Tory waverers but also current Labour supporters and members. Miliband's 35% strategy was a disaster and that focuses on all of our core support, I can't see how a strategy that only focuses on one wing of our support is going to be successful. If I were in Momentum I would be inviting speakers who would appeal to moderates to at least make them feel somewhat considered in proceedings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 This whole situation is symptomatic of the Left in Britain...argue with each other, split and fester as perennial impotent onlookers. Getting elected should be the aim, rather than the self-indulgence that seems to rule the roost the further left you go. A look at many ballot papers will show a clutch of sad wee "left" individuals who'll get a dozen votes from their pals. The Tommy Sheridan / Solidarity farce a few years ago is a classic example of a popular "left" movement imploding in a cat fight. Sadly for the electorate, Labour UK is harming itself for years to come, irrespective of the final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Well Momentum have to decide whether building a movement or winning the next election. It's clear the PLP don't want the former to happen so are preventing the latter any way they can which means Momentum will probably jettison or marginalise the "moderates" and attempt to take Labour to the left and build a greater base for left wing politics in the UK which was destroyed in the 80s and 90s. Labour aren't going to win the election absolutely regardless of whoever's leading the shipwreck at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 That's certainly the impression I got.Either way inviting someone who despises Labour to a fringe conference event is an odd choice. My biggest concern with a lot of the Corbyn supporters (though not all) is the attempt to turn Labour into a far-left echo chamber. As paranoid as this sounds I'm starting to feel that they don't actually want moderates in the party any more. I do wonder where they think the support to win the next election is coming from if they not only alienate potential Lib Dem and Tory waverers but also current Labour supporters and members. Miliband's 35% strategy was a disaster and that focuses on all of our core support, I can't see how a strategy that only focuses on one wing of our support is going to be successful. If I were in Momentum I would be inviting speakers who would appeal to moderates to at least make them feel somewhat considered in proceedings. Were you as concerned with the left wing of the party when the so-called moderates took the party to the right in the 90s? Hundreds of thousands of members and voters just drifted away as Blair et al focused on keeping the wealthy onside. There was a genuine sense that the leadership at that time didn't seem to want socialists in the party anymore. The word was tainted and genuine left wingers were left completely alienated at carefully stage managed conference year in year out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 This whole situation is symptomatic of the Left in Britain...argue with each other, split and fester as perennial impotent onlookers. Getting elected should be the aim, rather than the self-indulgence that seems to rule the roost the further left you go. A look at many ballot papers will show a clutch of sad wee "left" individuals who'll get a dozen votes from their pals. The Tommy Sheridan / Solidarity farce a few years ago is a classic example of a popular "left" movement imploding in a cat fight. Sadly for the electorate, Labour UK is harming itself for years to come, irrespective of the final result. Much of the hatred and distrust of politicians in this country stems from that 'say anything to win' mentality that Blair and Campbell were so skillful at. It leads to disingenuous politics and no meaningful change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 39 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Much of the hatred and distrust of politicians in this country stems from that 'say anything to win' mentality that Blair and Campbell were so skillful at. It leads to disingenuous politics and no meaningful change. Kinnock would have made an honest and (I think) a decent PM, whilst Foot would probably have done well too...but how close did either of them come to winning over the voters? Not very. Sadly, the best future for the Labour Party in the UK is to find another Blair. As someone once said, we get the government we deserve. Brexit and the independence referendum are prime examples of democracy fucking things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Kinnock would have made an honest and (I think) a decent PM, whilst Foot would probably have done well too...but how close did either of them come to winning over the voters? Not very. Sadly, the best future for the Labour Party in the UK is to find another Blair. As someone once said, we get the government we deserve. Brexit and the independence referendum are prime examples of democracy fucking things up. Another Tony Blair?The best future for the labour party?Maybe. But certainly not the best future for labour voters, or even more so those in society that badly need some support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Another Tony Blair?The best future for the labour party?Maybe. But certainly not the best future for labour voters, or even more so those in society that badly need some support. The best thing for the people who badly need support would be a Labour leader who can actually win an election, like Blair did, like I hope (admittedly without a great deal of confidence) Smith could, but like it is obvious that Corbyn can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 The best thing for the people who badly need support would be a Labour leader who can actually win an election, like Blair did, like I hope (admittedly without a great deal of confidence) Smith could, but like it is obvious that Corbyn can't. Round and round we go. I don't think the Blair government did anywhere near enough to justify the betrayal of labour principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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