Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 minutes ago, Anonapersona said:

Fair enough but I would hope the EU came to some sort of compromise in the interim. Stripping 5 million people of EU citizenship, the vast majority against their will, seems a bit out of touch.

If Scotland had voted Yes in 2014, those 5 million would have lost their EU citizenship last year anyway. 

[Fide]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

If Scotland had voted Yes in 2014, those 5 million would have lost their EU citizenship last year anyway. 

You're quite the fool.

[Colkitto]

21 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

I've been through this before. Ashcroft poll at time of the vote. Sample of 1018 in Scotland.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

Go to page 7 - 34% of the 519 SNP voters in that sample voted to Leave. Margin of error 4% either way. This is the figure that really upsets a lot of SNP supporters.

Don't use the "shoot the messenger" tactic like others. The polling was done by an independent company that is a member of the British Polling Council. There's a lot of very useful data, especially demographic and social, in a UK poll of over 12,000 respondents.

First thing that stands out is Ashcroft polling is a member of the BPC. That is not true.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, williemillersmoustache said:

^not denying he's getting his cheap thrills type post.

(while hypocritically smearing those that disagree with him)

He must be pretty close to climaxing into his Charles and Di tea towel by now, he'll be gone soon.

It's you who is the smear merchant. Your brain is the size of your handle.

 

[Anonapersona]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

If Scotland had voted Yes in 2014, those 5 million would have lost their EU citizenship last year anyway. 

There is no way to know what would have happened.

[williemillersmoustache]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

If Scotland had voted Yes in 2014, those 5 million would have lost their EU citizenship last year anyway. 

You don't know this and this is just yet another, pick and choose what you believe, desperate, grasping load of yoon pish. 

It's almost as if the entire debunking fest of the last 3 years just passed this fellow by.

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, Colkitto said:

First thing that stands out is Ashcroft polling is a member of the BPC. That is not true.

FFS! That's not what I said. Ashcroft only uses polling companies that are members of the BPC.

[philyerboots]

7 minutes ago, Anonapersona said:

. Stripping 5 million people of EU citizenship, the vast majority against their will, seems a bit out of touch.

So 1,661,191  is the vast majority of 5 million .  Guess its the SNP calculator in action.

[Shades75]

7 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Scottish independence would be my priority. I would campaign for an independent Scotland to leave or stay out of the EU. The reality, to the chagrin of the EUphiles, is very different.

Scotland can't leave the UK and join the EU immediately as the White Paper claimed. Even Sturgeon now appears to accept that. She is advocating the Norwegian model rather than full EU Membership. But the EUphiles on here are in denial about that too.

See, that wasn't so hard.

Mike Russell doesn't agree with the last part of your second paragraph though.  He stated very clearly, last week in TV, that the SNP's intention is to seek full EU membership.

[williemillersmoustache]

Amazing how polls & experts were liars and cheats pre-brexit ref, now, incorruptible paragons of truth and virtue. 

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, philyerboots said:

So 1,661,191  is the vast majority of 5 million .  Guess its the SNP calculator in action.

That's a yoon calculation if ever I saw one.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, Anonapersona said:

There is no way to know what would have happened.

The EU Commission was very clear but the SNP would not accept it's view.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/economic-affairs/ScottishIndependence/EA68_Scotland_and_the_EU_Barroso's_reply_to_Lord_Tugendhat_101212.pdf

http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

[Anonapersona]

Just now, philyerboots said:

So 1,661,191  is the vast majority of 5 million .  Guess its the SNP calculator in action.

Surely we can only go by the percentages of those who voted?

[Fide]

2 minutes ago, philyerboots said:

So 1,661,191  is the vast majority of 5 million .  Guess its the SNP calculator in action.

Do you REALLY need the stupidity of this explained to you?

[Baxter Parp]

 

[Anonapersona]

2 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The EU Commission was very clear but the SNP would not accept it's view.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/economic-affairs/ScottishIndependence/EA68_Scotland_and_the_EU_Barroso's_reply_to_Lord_Tugendhat_101212.pdf

http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

There is nothing about the 2014 referendum, from any source, that I can seriously take at face value.

[Shades75]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The EU Commission was very clear but the SNP would not accept it's view.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/economic-affairs/ScottishIndependence/EA68_Scotland_and_the_EU_Barroso's_reply_to_Lord_Tugendhat_101212.pdf

http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

More Google.

[renton]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

No thanks. I'll take the opportunity to leave the EU now. 

Even if it means no Scottish independence, ever? You are in the minority of your movement, you are not going to win over enough converts in the SNP to make leaving both Unions the primary outcome in one go. You do have enough heft to lose us another indy ref by taking the cream puff over Europe. Your best bet of arranging the situation to your liking is to leave the UK now while there is a pro indy majority and a causus belli for activating a referendum, and worry about Europe later, when post Indy you and what becomes of the Tories can make common cause. Grabbing at leaving the EU now at the cost of Scottish independence leaves the major road block to Scottish decision making in place.

Just now, kirkyblue2 said:

You can't leave the EU unless we get another referendum.

The member states can have a referendum anytime they like, and present an article 50 letter - indeed they don't have to have a referendum, the government of the day just has to decide it's leaving. It's much, much harder for Scotland to leave the UK, as might be expected from the difference between a federal trading block and a unitary political state. Scotland must elect a pro Indy majority, must rely on the good graces of the UK to accept a referendum, and then win it against overt UK politicking on a scale that that EU never pursued in the Brexit referendum. Then the Uk has to accept a result it might not like.

[Colkitto]

10 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

FFS! That's not what I said. Ashcroft only uses polling companies that are members of the BPC.

Can you tell me what polling companies he uses so I can verify if they are indeed members of the BPC?  

[Bishop Briggs]

6 minutes ago, Shades75 said:

See, that wasn't so hard.

Mike Russell doesn't agree with the last part of your second paragraph though.  He stated very clearly, last week in TV, that the SNP's intention is to seek full EU membership.

Fair enough but Sturgeon's EU Paper wanted EEA membership after Brexit. 

 EU Membership will take years to negotiate. Much would depend on the ScotExit deal with rUK. We still don't know what the currency policy will be. The EU requires new members to have their own currency and central bank.

Here's another classic example of Russell/SNP delusion - welcoming one Spanish statement but refusing to accept another on the White Paper.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/spain-would-not-block-independent-scotland-eu-application-1-4409892

"The Scottish Government’s Brexit minister has welcomed a commitment from the Spanish foreign minister that Spain would not block an independent Scotland’s bid to re-join the EU after independence.

"Mike Russell said the comments by Alfonso Dastis “de-escalate” the row over Scotland’s long-term future as Nationalists seek to hold a second independence referendum on leaving the UK. 

BUT

"Mr Dastis confirmed that Scotland would have to reapply to join the Brussels bloc, contradicting the SNP position in the last referendum that the country could automatically stay in the EU after a Yes vote."