WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 To be fair to the UK they have a process to allow EU citizens to stay. The EU aren’t allowing Brits to retain their EU citizenship which is a toys out the pram exercise.Yet the EU has a process for uk immigrants to apply to stay, and the UK isn't doling out citizenship to EU nationals.To be, as you say, fair - very much in the wording used to suit your views.Now, go tidy your toys back into your pram. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Staying in a country and having citizenship of said country/union of countries are two different things, so you two are arguing about what exactly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 To be fair to the UK they have a process to allow EU citizens to stay. The EU aren’t allowing Brits to retain their EU citizenship which is a toys out the pram exercise.How could Brits retain EU citizenship having become citizens of a third party country at the insistence of the UK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Jacksgranda said: Staying in a country and having citizenship of said country/union of countries are two different things, so you two are arguing about what exactly? Oh, I know. I don't think the wee fella I replied to does, though. Certainly taking out Spanish citizenship was an option which a lot of "ex-pats" didn't think they would have to abide by. 'Cos Engurland, init? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 18 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: To be fair to the UK they have a process to allow EU citizens to stay. The EU aren’t allowing Brits to retain their EU citizenship which is a toys out the pram exercise. Wut? The UK are "allowing" people who came here legally and decades ago as children, and have lived her longer than I have to stay? Gosh, how generous of them! And all they have to do is fill out a load of paperwork, find documents to prove they're been here (which can be difficult), scan their face and pay a fee. How very generous of the UK. The idea that those people have any less right to be in the UK than I have is utterly repugnant. How is that equivalent to the EU not allowing people who are citizens of and live in a country that has left the EU to be EU citizens??? What would that even look like? Someone should let Priti Patel know Boris Johnson was born in New York, she'd have him deported before he could get anyone else pregnant. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 9 hours ago, GordonS said: Wut? The UK are "allowing" people who came here legally and decades ago as children, and have lived her longer than I have to stay? Gosh, how generous of them! And all they have to do is fill out a load of paperwork, find documents to prove they're been here (which can be difficult), scan their face and pay a fee. How very generous of the UK. The idea that those people have any less right to be in the UK than I have is utterly repugnant. How is that equivalent to the EU not allowing people who are citizens of and live in a country that has left the EU to be EU citizens??? What would that even look like? Someone should let Priti Patel know Boris Johnson was born in New York, she'd have him deported before he could get anyone else pregnant. Does the EU have an equivalent to the settlement scheme? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) Could be wrong but i don't think the EU can grant citizenship or residency rights and that's up to member states to decide. As far as i remember, the EU never told the UK when it was a member what rules to have about 3rd country immigrants, although there might have been the odd restriction. Edited July 1, 2021 by coprolite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, strichener said: Does the EU have an equivalent to the settlement scheme? That's obviously a member state issue. The EU only has a role in free movement among members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, GordonS said: That's obviously a member state issue. The EU only has a role in free movement among members. That'll be a no then. The EU could have included UK nationals living abroad in the withdrawal agreement and allowed them to remain "EU citizens" which would have allowed them to stay in their country of residence without going through the same process as the UK has for EU nationals. They chose not to do this and UK nationals have similar processes to follow to establish residency in the EU. In most cases (such as France, Spain ) the process is more cumbersome than the UKs. There is plenty in the Withdrawal Agreement to take issue with. This really isn't one of them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, strichener said: That'll be a no then. The EU could have included UK nationals living abroad in the withdrawal agreement and allowed them to remain "EU citizens" which would have allowed them to stay in their country of residence without going through the same process as the UK has for EU nationals. They chose not to do this and UK nationals have similar processes to follow to establish residency in the EU. In most cases (such as France, Spain ) the process is more cumbersome than the UKs. There is plenty in the Withdrawal Agreement to take issue with. This really isn't one of them. The EU wouldn't have had the power to impose a rule on residency or citizenship rights on member states. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just now, coprolite said: The EU wouldn't have had the power to impose a rule on residency or citizenship rights on member states. It's already enshrined in the EU, it is why UK citizens managed to live abroad for years without adopting residency? According to the Pro-EU on here, the EU doesn't make any decisions (ha, ha), it is the member states. These member states empowered the EU to negotiate the withdrawal agreement so there is no reason why residency could not have been included. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 That'll be a no then. The EU could have included UK nationals living abroad in the withdrawal agreement and allowed them to remain "EU citizens" which would have allowed them to stay in their country of residence without going through the same process as the UK has for EU nationals. The right to residence is up to the individual country, not the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just now, strichener said: It's already enshrined in the EU, it is why UK citizens managed to live abroad for years without adopting residency? According to the Pro-EU on here, the EU doesn't make any decisions (ha, ha), it is the member states. These member states empowered the EU to negotiate the withdrawal agreement so there is no reason why residency could not have been included. Freedom of movement in the EU is a different matter to what 3rd country citizen rights are. The EU has no jurisdiction over those so couldn't negotiate them for its members. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, coprolite said: Freedom of movement in the EU is a different matter to what 3rd country citizen rights are. The EU has no jurisdiction over those so couldn't negotiate them for its members. And yet the withdrawal agreement included the right of residency for UK citizens living in the EU. How did that happen? Coming back to point, the process for EU nationals to gain settled status in the UK is less onerous than most of the reciprocal EU country arrangements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladdin Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 As people have said, there is no such thing as independent EU citizenship. You gain that through citizenship of a member state. My father in law has lived in Spain number of years. About the first thing he did was sort out his residency as soon as he was entitled. Its crazy the number of UK ex-pats he knows out there that never did it (mainly because they didnt want to pay tax in Spain) and are now totally gubbed if they ever require any health care, as they are effectively residing there illegally. The proportion of them who also voted for Brexit was staggering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, strichener said: That'll be a no then. The EU could have included UK nationals living abroad in the withdrawal agreement and allowed them to remain "EU citizens" which would have allowed them to stay in their country of residence without going through the same process as the UK has for EU nationals. They chose not to do this and UK nationals have similar processes to follow to establish residency in the EU. In most cases (such as France, Spain ) the process is more cumbersome than the UKs. There is plenty in the Withdrawal Agreement to take issue with. This really isn't one of them. You even used quotation marks to advertise that you know there's no such thing as an EU Citizen, rather than citizens of member states. To be consistent, you should have done the same for the pphrase "EU nationals", what with the EU not being a Nation and all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, strichener said: That'll be a no then. The EU could have included UK nationals living abroad in the withdrawal agreement and allowed them to remain "EU citizens" which would have allowed them to stay in their country of residence without going through the same process as the UK has for EU nationals. They chose not to do this and UK nationals have similar processes to follow to establish residency in the EU. In most cases (such as France, Spain ) the process is more cumbersome than the UKs. There is plenty in the Withdrawal Agreement to take issue with. This really isn't one of them. No, you're really wrong about this. The EU is not allowed to interfere in residency and citizenship issues involving citizens of countries that aren't in the EU. It's outside their legal competence. They did co-ordinate some movement arrangements on behalf of members as part of the Withdrawal Agreement, but obviously that would never go beyond what the UK was offering. Why should they give more freedom of movement rights to UK citizens when 1) the UK wasn't offering the same to EU citizens and 2) the UK's citizens had voted to leave? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, GordonS said: No, you're really wrong about this. The EU is not allowed to interfere in residency and citizenship issues involving citizens of countries that aren't in the EU. It's outside their legal competence. They did co-ordinate some movement arrangements on behalf of members as part of the Withdrawal Agreement, but obviously that would never go beyond what the UK was offering. Why should they give more freedom of movement rights to UK citizens when 1) the UK wasn't offering the same to EU citizens and 2) the UK's citizens had voted to leave? 'Cos Spitfires, Churchill, and they'd all be speaking bloody German, wouldn't they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: 'Cos Spitfires, Churchill, and they'd all be speaking bloody German, wouldn't they? It's funny, Europeans are supposed to be grateful to us for what our grandfathers did, yet the UK fought tooth-and-nail to prevent those who served our military from settling here, such as Gurkhas and translators in Iraq and Afghanistan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 hours ago, GordonS said: No, you're really wrong about this. The EU is not allowed to interfere in residency and citizenship issues involving citizens of countries that aren't in the EU. It's outside their legal competence. They did co-ordinate some movement arrangements on behalf of members as part of the Withdrawal Agreement, but obviously that would never go beyond what the UK was offering. Why should they give more freedom of movement rights to UK citizens when 1) the UK wasn't offering the same to EU citizens and 2) the UK's citizens had voted to leave? The EU and the UK agreed to protect the residence rights of EU nationals and their family members living in the UK and those of UK nationals and their family members living in an EU country. The agreement covers those citizens living in the UK or in an EU country before 31 December 2020 and staying there afterwards. This protection is not automatic in all EU countries or in the UK. This is the EU that negotiated this, not the member states. 5 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: You even used quotation marks to advertise that you know there's no such thing as an EU Citizen, rather than citizens of member states. To be consistent, you should have done the same for the pphrase "EU nationals", what with the EU not being a Nation and all. So why were they so many people greeting about losing their EU citizenship? The non-nation EU acts just like a nation taking part in the G7 for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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