Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Jacksgranda]

44 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

A time limited backstop is a non starter.  The EU27 have said this from Day 1 and have explained the reason why.

What happened to “This is the only deal”?

 

The back stop doesn't kick in until the transition period has expired, as far as I'm aware. That's two years away, is it not?

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

The back stop doesn't kick in until the transition period has expired, as far as I'm aware. That's two years away, is it not?

And the transition period can be extended for another 2 years. The backstop is a red herring for people after a hard brexit, it would almost certainly never happen as nobody in the EU wants Britain to have full access to the single market without paying a penny and having no freedom of movement. By the way, a quote from Donald Tusk:

Quote

I asked David Cameron, ‘Why did you decide on this referendum, this – it’s so dangerous, so even stupid, you know,’ and, he told me - and I was really amazed and even shocked - that the only reason was his own party, [He told me] he felt really safe, because he thought at the same time that there’s no risk of a referendum, because, his coalition partner, the Liberals, would block this idea of a referendum. But then, surprisingly, he won and there was no coalition partner. So paradoxically David Cameron became the real victim of his own victory.

 

[wastecoatwilly]

35 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

So when does NS hit the button, March 30th?

When the 6 counties are giving back to a united Eire.

[NotThePars]

She'll hit the button when she's confident that enough heads are gone to ensure that people actually turn up on the day and vote YES. .

lol I didn’t read the quoted post and thought this was referring to May and her deal going through parliament on the second attempt.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 minute ago, NotThePars said:

 

lol I didn’t read the quoted post and thought this was referring to May and her deal going through parliament on the second attempt.

 

There's not enough brown envelops for that to happen. 

[BawWatchin]

3 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

lol I didn’t read the quoted post and thought this was referring to May and her deal going through parliament on the second attempt.

Then the heads really would have to be gone...... literally.

[Colkitto]

47 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

So when does NS hit the button, March 30th?

Most avenues have been explored, so I'd imagine it would be pretty soon. 

She may pull the trigger in a couple of weeks or she may say if final Brexit deal vote does not contain CU and   SM then she will request Section 30 order. 

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

The back stop doesn't kick in until the transition period has expired, as far as I'm aware. That's two years away, is it not?

Yes but it cannot have an end date agreed up front or it is ineffective.  It can only end once certain conditions are met and no one can say in advance that these will be met within a five year period.

 

[dirty dingus]

She's blaming the nasty Scots nats for not having a peoples vote.

 

[wastecoatwilly]

When the Tories suck the life out of the DUP they will relies that there is very little left of rule Britannia diminishing everything they hold dear and see London for what it really is.
A centralised corrupt mafia state vacuuming the rest of the UK into bankruptcy.
The growing attitude of the far right is going to polarise middle England I wish them the best of luck.

[strichener]

23 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Yes but it cannot have an end date agreed up front or it is ineffective.  It can only end once certain conditions are met and no one can say in advance that these will be met within a five year period.

 

If they can put a time limit on exiting the EU then they can put a time limit on a backstop.  It isn't that they cannot do it, there is no political will in the EU for it as they are quite happy for the conundrum to remain and help towards a goal of no-brexit.

[Jacksgranda]

53 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Yes but it cannot have an end date agreed up front or it is ineffective.  It can only end once certain conditions are met and no one can say in advance that these will be met within a five year period.

 

It is quite likely that the backstop may never be needed, at the very earliest it's 2 years away from being implemented, in all likelihood even longer. Using it as a reason to scupper the deal - the only deal the EU are prepared to countenance, apparently (despite all the assertions on this thread that there were many options available whenever May said hers the only deal on offer) - so if that's the case the backstop isn't going away, you know.

[Colkitto]

3 hours ago, jamieson87 said:

That's been knocked on the head by the Irish saying it does not reflect the EU position

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

It is quite likely that the backstop may never be needed, at the very earliest it's 2 years away from being implemented, in all likelihood even longer. Using it as a reason to scupper the deal - the only deal the EU are prepared to countenance, apparently (despite all the assertions on this thread that there were many options available whenever May said hers the only deal on offer) - so if that's the case the backstop isn't going away, you know.

Yeah the backstop is there to give the EU27 confidence that there will NEVER be the return of a hard border.  It has been explained very clearly from Day 1.

May knows this, and whilst she might not agree she understands it too.  That is why she accepted it as part of her negotiated deal.

Personally I think it puts the U.K. in a weaker position but I understand it’s necessity if we withdraw.  Not withdrawing is a far better option.

There are still some/many British politicians who seem to think the EU will cave in at the last minute.  It’s the worst example of hubris and arrogance from those who still see us as a major world power.

[btb]

13 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

That's been knocked on the head by the Irish saying it does not reflect the EU position

Yeah but it does tend to support the ERG view that the EU might compromise at the last minute. You'd have to assume from the Polish Minister's tweet that support for the backstop amongst the remaining 27 is not unanimous and who knows it might be a lot closer than 26-1. 

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Yeah the backstop is there to give the EU27 confidence that there will NEVER be the return of a hard border.  It has been explained very clearly from Day 1.

May knows this, and whilst she might not agree she understands it too.  That is why she accepted it as part of her negotiated deal.

Personally I think it puts the U.K. in a weaker position but I understand it’s necessity if we withdraw.  Not withdrawing is a far better option.

There are still some/many British politicians who seem to think the EU will cave in at the last minute.  It’s the worst example of hubris and arrogance from those who still see us as a major world power.

I don't think that is an option, though.

Which politician is going to risk his career - and they are all career politicians nowadays, nobody gets a "proper" job before becoming a politician now (If you're really crap you end up in some EU institution or other) - by coming out with "let's stay". 

The only parties that have been Remain are the Lib Dems and the Greens (and the SNP of course) and there's  not enough MPs to force that through, The big two parties are hopelessly split and neither of them are going to propose remain and there is no one sticking their head above the parapet to propose an all party coalition of Remainers (including the Lib Dems, the Greens (have they any MPs?) and the SNP.

[btb]

I understand it's unparliamentary language but surely he should go the extra step and just call her a liar. 

Quote

Labour’s Ben Bradshaw asks May if her first loyalty is to the national interest or the party interest.

May says everything she is doing in the national interest.

 

[Colkitto]

3 minutes ago, btb said:

Yeah but it does tend to support the ERG view that the EU might compromise at the last minute. You'd have to assume from the Polish Minister's tweet that support for the backstop amongst the remaining 27 is not unanimous and who knows it might be a lot closer than 26-1. 

Yes, obviously it needs to be unanimous for all EU countries. The Irish will never compromise so it's a non-starter 

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, btb said:

Yeah but it does tend to support the ERG view that the EU might compromise at the last minute. You'd have to assume from the Polish Minister's tweet that support for the backstop amongst the remaining 27 is not unanimous and who knows it might be a lot closer than 26-1. 

They might - the EU don't really want a No Deal, either.

It's all a bit of a cliffhanger.

[Granny Danger]

6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I don't think that is an option, though.

Which politician is going to risk his career - and they are all career politicians nowadays, nobody gets a "proper" job before becoming a politician now (If you're really crap you end up in some EU institution or other) - by coming out with "let's stay". 

The only parties that have been Remain are the Lib Dems and the Greens (and the SNP of course) and there's  not enough MPs to force that through, The big two parties are hopelessly split and neither of them are going to propose remain and there is no one sticking their head above the parapet to propose an all party coalition of Remainers (including the Lib Dems, the Greens (have they any MPs?) and the SNP.

The might not say “stay” but they can engineer a situation where that is the likely outcome, or at worst the softest of Brexits.

I know it’s hard to appreciate given all that had happened but there a far more Remainers than Leavers in Parliament.