sureiknow Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: JRM also said the Queen should prorogue Parliament to prevent Cooper's bill being debated and passed. These b*****ds will so anything to get their Hard Brexit. Fucking scum of the worst kind. The Queen can't do that. Fake news. More off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 hours ago, welshbairn said: Why are the Right so much better at messaging than the Centre? I'm basing this mainly on the docudrama on the Leave campaign, but I'm guessing it's not recognising that emotion is much better at getting people out to vote than logic. Who the f**k thought that "The People's Vote" would be a good slogan, when the obvious response would be "So what was the first one?". The "Informed Consent" angle that a couple of ex doctor MP's are trying to push sounds a bit better. And even Blair should know that his name behind anything is toxic unless he's flogging PR to a dictator. It is easier to present a united front when it is defined in terms of what you are against. The Brexiteers are against the EU, against the single market, against the customs union, against free movement, against May's Deal. When they talk about what they are against - they are agreed. Whenever they talk about what they are for - they are not. People voted Leave for completely different reasons. As long as they avoid the detail, they can pretend they did so for the same reasons. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 The Queen can't do that. Fake news. More off.The government can do what it wants - if they ask the Queen to prorogue Parliament it would have to be done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 It is easier to present a united front when it is defined in terms of what you are against. The Brexiteers are against the EU, against the single market, against the customs union, against free movement, against May's Deal. When they talk about what they are against - they are agreed. Whenever they talk about what they are for - they are not. People voted Leave for completely different reasons. As long as they avoid the detail, they can pretend they did so for the same reasons.What's worse is the Hard Brexiters imply that the electorate actually voted to leave the Single Market etc.They also completely fail to understand what advisory means.It's like the rewriting of history 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, Fullerene said: It is easier to present a united front when it is defined in terms of what you are against. The Brexiteers are against the EU, against the single market, against the customs union, against free movement, against May's Deal. When they talk about what they are against - they are agreed. Whenever they talk about what they are for - they are not. People voted Leave for completely different reasons. As long as they avoid the detail, they can pretend they did so for the same reasons. It's also much easier to appeal to the lowest-common denominator. To appeal to base instincts, and to feed people's ignorance and prejudices. The right has always been about dog whistle politics. It was true 100 years ago, and it's true today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: What's worse is the Hard Brexiters imply that the electorate actually voted to leave the Single Market etc. They also completely fail to understand what advisory means. It's like the rewriting of history "I voted Leave. If that means famine, disease, war and poverty then so be it. As long as we are out the EU, that is what is important." The Brexiteers were given a blank cheque - or at least that is how they see it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: The government can do what it wants - if they ask the Queen to prorogue Parliament it would have to be done. This is the sort of Hard Brexit I could live with. Theresa May getting the queen to close Parliament to ensure we leave on 29 March. Queues at Dover, food shortages, trade totally fucked, desperate shortage of medicine, value of £ plummeting, mass hysteria, Gozer the Gozerian sweeping through Trafalgar Square. I reckon Independence would swiftly follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Aye until his arse collapses on polling dayWell, he might be deid by that stage ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 This is the sort of Hard Brexit I could live with. Theresa May getting the queen to close Parliament to ensure we leave on 29 March. Queues at Dover, food shortages, trade totally fucked, desperate shortage of medicine, value of £ plummeting, mass hysteria, Gozer the Gozerian sweeping through Trafalgar Square. I reckon Independence would swiftly follow. I agree - even though the democrat in me would be appalled it would make the case for Independence easier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 It's also much easier to appeal to the lowest-common denominator. To appeal to base instincts, and to feed people's ignorance and prejudices. The right has always been about dog whistle politics. It was true 100 years ago, and it's true today. Bit naive to think that’s just limited to the right. Ignorance is pretty widespread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Bit naive to think that’s just limited to the right. Ignorance is pretty widespread. Mmm. Genuine question - do you think ignorance is equally split between those on the right and left side of politics? If not, what side do you think has the more ignorant? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gaz said: Mmm. Genuine question - do you think ignorance is equally split between those on the right and left side of politics? If not, what side do you think has the more ignorant? Well you're clearly going to pick the side that you're at odds with. We perceieve anyone who doesn't agree with our view point as being ignorant for not doing so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Bit naive to think that’s just limited to the right. Ignorance is pretty widespread. Perhaps, but the right-wing has an impressive record of whipping-up suggestible, reactionary and often poorly-educated people; Hitler, Mussolini, Mosley, Trump and now Brexit to cite five.The left tends to be more introspective and self-critical and applies greater rigour before reaching a judgement. Populism also has less influence.Just my opinion, but based on a lifetime of observing and being directly involved in politics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 ' BoTH sIDeS ArE aS bAD As ThE oThER' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: Bit naive to think that’s just limited to the right. Ignorance is pretty widespread. There is nothing wrong with ignorance itself. We are all born ignorant. I don't know how to do brain surgery I can't speak Japanese. If you asked me to count from 1 to 10 in Swahili, I would have to say that I can't. (Obviously I could find out - but then you could choose another language). The problem with the EU referendum was that people were being asked to make a decision with very little focus on the facts. Would I decide what anaesthetic to use for brain surgery based on whether I prefer one doctor to another or which country made the anaesthetic. Of course that lead to the claim "we knew what we were voting for". Presumably they also knew it would all be quick and easy and it would probably all be sorted out by now. It was the right wing press that pressed hardest for an emotional decision. That is why the side that won the referendum are far angrier than the side that lost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 "The moment you conclude that you're not longer ignorant is the moment that everybody else concludes that you are." - BawWatchin (25/01/19) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I was born in the fifties, I naively believed that society would improve with the progression of time. Instead we have people who cannot differentiate between facts and opinion or between informed opinion and uninformed opinion.* I have observed that the worse examples of that are supporters of the populist right. The views on the role and contribution of immigrants to our economy being a prime example of that. * It is only right that these people can vote; it’s also a bit depressing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I was born in the fifties, I naively believed that society would improve with the progression of time. Instead we have people who cannot differentiate between facts and opinion or between informed opinion and uninformed opinion.* I have observed that the worse examples of that are supporters of the populist right. The views on the role and contribution of immigrants to our economy being a prime example of that. * It is only right that these people can vote; it’s also a bit depressing. What if people disagree with what you consider to be fact. Are they wrong for doing so. Just because you're convinced in your own mind that you're right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, BawWatchin said: What if people disagree with what you consider to be fact. Are they wrong for doing so. Just because you're convinced in your own mind that you're right? Surely if it is a fact, then it will be able to be evidenced? A fact isn't something you can "Consider to be" it is either something that can be proven to be true or false. Opinion is the opposite, you can consider that you might have a well-supported opinion but it can't be a true or a false opinion, it can only be that - a position you hold based on the evidence you have (or don't have). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Jambomo said: Surely if it is a fact, then it will be able to be evidenced? A fact isn't something you can "Consider to be" it is either something that can be proven to be true or false. Opinion is the opposite, you can consider that you might have a well-supported opinion but it can't be a true or a false opinion, it can only be that - a position you hold based on the evidence you have (or don't have). But if fact is based on evidence. Then wouldn't your opinions also be fact, based on what you consider to be evidence? Is evidence absolute, or is it merely down to your personal interpretation of that evidence and whether you personally consider it to be solid enough to consider something a fact or not? Surely all of your opinions are fact as far as you are concerned? Why would you hold a view about something unless you considered it to be concrete fact? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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