NotThePars Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'm looking at my copy just now and Berger explicitly states that migrant labour "slow down wages increases". (P141 in my copy) I believe that FoM primarily exists to strengthen capital over labour. On page 122-130 of my copy Berger explains that migrant labour is an essential factor in reproducing class hierarchies via the social division of labour. Then he, and you, are wrong. Prioritising border controls and western workers to the exclusion of non-western workers isn't leftist, it's a lumpen attitude at best. Any 21st century internationalist movement that exists in the west can't close its borders when the anthropocene is seeing a resurgence of fascism and wall building. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: FTFY Your two contributions to this forum are 1. Corbyn is bad because he won't do exactly what you want on Brexit 2. People should stop responding to specific posters that you don't like 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'm looking at my copy just now and Berger explicitly states that migrant labour "slow down wages increases". (P141 in my copy) I believe that FoM primarily exists to strengthen capital over labour. On page 122-130 of my copy Berger explains that migrant labour is an essential factor in reproducing class hierarchies via the social division of labour. I've just had an image of privileged socialists sunning themselves on the Cote D'azur, arguing whether workers rights should rise to freedom of movement. "God forbid!" they all cry! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: How does that square with your bitter husband analogy? Massive concession, but our 'red lines' won't allow it. We're the ones not meeting in the middle. The 'forever' bit isn't the case either. It's only a part of the Withdrawal Agreement which is the beginning of the negtiations, not the end. And anyway, it can be avoided as all we need to do is come up with the arrangements that the Leave campaign has been guaranteeing were available since before the referendum. The Backstop bogeyman was an invention of the No Dealers - if it wasn't that part of the WA it would have been something else that became the sticking point. How touchingly naive you are. Ditto Welshbairn - "would only be used as an absolutely last resort". You're not Theresa and Olly, by any chance, are you? The EU and ROI keep saying they don't believe there is any solution to the border. And in 3 years they have shown no inclination to try to suggest anything positive. If that's their attitude then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and nothing will ever satisfy them. And of course it's in their political interests to annex Ulster. ROI for obvious reasons and EU as a punishment beating for naughty UK. Come on guys. you're surely not that wet behind the ears? Are you? Edited September 23, 2019 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: No it highlights just how absolutely out of their depth the UK government is. No argument there. Although jury's out on Boris - too early to tell. But at least it's not like sending a 12 year old girl guide to negotiate with a hard-nosed 50 year old second-hand car dealer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 How touchingly naive you are. Ditto Welshbairn - "would only be used as an absolutely last resort". You're not Theresa and Olly, by any chance, are you? The EU and ROI keep saying they don't believe there is any solution to the border. And in 3 years they have shown no inclination to try to suggest anything positive. If that's their attitude then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and nothing will ever satisfy them. And of course it's in their political interests to annex Ulster. ROI for obvious reasons and EU as a punishment beating for naughty UK. Come on guys. you're surely not that wet behind the ears? Are you?Whoosh. Jesus... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 How touchingly naive you are. Ditto Welshbairn - "would only be used as an absolutely last resort". You're not Theresa and Olly, by any chance, are you? The EU and ROI keep saying they don't believe there is any solution to the border. And in 3 years they have shown no inclination to try to suggest anything positive. If that's their attitude then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and nothing will ever satisfy them. And of course it's in their political interests to annex Ulster. ROI for obvious reasons and EU as a punishment beating for naughty UK. Come on guys. you're surely not that wet behind the ears? Are you?It’s not their job to come up with a solution. We voted for it. They’ve bent over backwards to come up with something and we don’t agree because we’re arseholes about the whole thing.What do you think they should provide as a solution? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: It’s not their job to come up with a solution. We voted for it. They’ve bent over backwards to come up with something and we don’t agree because we’re arseholes about the whole thing. What do you think they should provide as a solution? It's not their job? It's not their fkn job? Tell me, who do you think is responsible for trying to make sure that High Street shoppers don't get blown to pieces and low-grade public servants don't get bullets in their head? In my book it is 1. The misguided scum that do the killings. 2. The people and institutions of NI 3. The UK government 4. The Republic of Ireland government - and by extension 5. The EU. It's not for the other 4 parties to sit back and say it's all down to the UK to sort - and almost egg on 1. And I'm sorry you feel like an arsehole. You should have some more self-confidence and self-respect. You are Olly, aren't you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: It's not their job? It's not their fkn job? Tell me, who do you think is responsible for trying to make sure that High Street shoppers don't get blown to pieces and low-grade public servants don't get bullets in their head? In my book it is 1. The misguided scum that do the killings. 2. The people and institutions of NI 3. The UK government 4. The Republic of Ireland government - and by extension 5. The EU. It's not for the other 4 parties to sit back and say it's all down to the UK to sort - and almost egg on 1. And I'm sorry you feel like an arsehole. You should have some more self-confidence and self-respect. You are Olly, aren't you? Whit! How about the catastrophic effect on the Irish economy of putting up an idiotic barrier to trade and human movement? Edited September 23, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Whit! Astute response. You've got me there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Whit! How about the catastrophic effect on the Irish economy of putting up an idiotic barrier to trade and human movement?And the sharks!! Can people stop forgetting the sharks??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I want a sharks first Brexit. Thats what I voted for. And the sharks!! Can people stop forgetting the sharks??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: No argument there. Although jury's out on Boris - too early to tell. Nah, you've fucked it. If this is your level then everything else you've ever written on here isn't worth a f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, HTG said: Nah, you've fucked it. If this is your level then everything else you've ever written on here isn't worth a f**k. Nah, you've fucked it. If this is your level then everything else you've ever written on here isn't worth a f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 10 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: How touchingly naive you are. Ditto Welshbairn - "would only be used as an absolutely last resort". You're not Theresa and Olly, by any chance, are you? The EU and ROI keep saying they don't believe there is any solution to the border. And in 3 years they have shown no inclination to try to suggest anything positive. If that's their attitude then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and nothing will ever satisfy them. And of course it's in their political interests to annex Ulster. ROI for obvious reasons and EU as a punishment beating for naughty UK. Come on guys. you're surely not that wet behind the ears? Are you? How can anyone talk about "naive" and "wet behind the ears" after making posts of this insightfulness and calibre? On 10/09/2019 at 14:02, Pet Jeden said: Orange walks are not my cup of tea and are not very relevant to 21st century Scotland - although presumably they are to mark a major part of what made Scotland. But attending one is proof of bigotry? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 12 hours ago, NotThePars said: Then he, and you, are wrong. Prioritising border controls and western workers to the exclusion of non-western workers isn't leftist, it's a lumpen attitude at best. Any 21st century internationalist movement that exists in the west can't close its borders when the anthropocene is seeing a resurgence of fascism and wall building. FoM only applies to Western workers though. It's two different issues. Climate refugees are coming regardless of the law. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 There's more legal immigration from outside the EU than from within. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 This is brilliant. The broadcast of the verdict has the sound distorted, so nobody knows what is happening. It sums up the whole situation! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: This is brilliant. The broadcast of the verdict has the sound distorted, so nobody knows what is happening. It sums up the whole situation! Ok on BBC2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Just now, ICTJohnboy said: Ok on BBC2 It is now yeah. It went clear just as i hit post! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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