Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

There was a film (I suppose a book to) titled 'the constant gardener'.  Not sure what it's about.

Mowing the grass on the Forth Rail Bridge. By the time they got to one end they had to start again at the other end.

[welshbairn]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

There was a film (I suppose a book to) titled 'the constant gardener'.  Not sure what it's about.

John Le Carre. I've read it, about a charity worker in Africa IIRC. Don't see the link.

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

John Le Carre. I've read it, about a charity worker in Africa IIRC. Don't see the link.

You didn't post it, that's why.

[new kyd in town]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

There are some folk who do not really understand what a troll is.

There are others too thick to recognise a troll.

Then there are those so desperate for interaction that they will still engage with a troll.  They are the saddest of the lot.

How very parochial. Suits you sir

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Mowing the grass on the Forth Rail Bridge. By the time they got to one end they had to start again at the other end.

Sounds plausable.

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

John Le Carre. I've read it, about a charity worker in Africa IIRC. Don't see the link.

Nah.

[ICTJohnboy]

8 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Thought it was inconstant gardener, didn't get the joke though.

 

My first thought was Barry Gardiner who seems to uncontrollably spew out shite and pish.

[Granny Danger]

Slightly off topic.  Had to go out for a while today and tuned into BBC Five Live, not a radio channel I usually listed to; I thought the presenter (Emma Barnett?) was far superior to most that I have listened too.

 

[dee_62]

Guardian Brexit reporter Lisa O'Carroll  "May to tell 1922 committee - reports - that she will not stand in next election and will make way once brexit deal over the line - this is part of plan to lance leadership challenge right now."

"once the brexit deal is over the line"  Looks like she's here till the next election then.

[Detournement]

31 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Never thought I'd ever find anything positive to say about May, but I did appreciate her reference to Corbyn's incontinent gardener

 

 

 

 

 

 

She said "Inconstant Gardener".

Which was a reference to a John Le Carre novel and the fact that Corbyn has an allotment. Which is apparently hilarious if you are a backbench Tory.

She probably had it in reserve for  while and thought she mights as well use it today or she won't get the chance!

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

My first thought was Barry Gardiner who seems to uncontrollably spew out shite and pish.

Think you're right. He's been the spokesman for Labour's ever changing Brexit strategy.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

I personally think that Labour not calling for a VONC to be correct. To potentially trigger a GE while we are dealing with this Brexit shambles would be irresponsible and the electorate would backlash against Labour.

[harry94]

Just now, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

I personally think that Labour not calling for a VONC to be correct. To potentially trigger a GE while we are dealing with this Brexit shambles would be irresponsible and the electorate would backlash against Labour.

Parliament (or more specifically - the government) can't come up with anything. A VONC is one of the exact specific scenarios that can give more time to deal with it as it would warrant an extension.

I'm far from convinced Corbyn has any sort of alternative but their conscience is clear if they collapse a government which can't govern.

[new kyd in town]

20 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Slightly off topic.  Had to go out for a while today and tuned into BBC Five Live, not a radio channel I usually listed to; I thought the presenter (Emma Barnett?) was far superior to most that I have listened too.

 

 

[Iabella Duke]

49 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

This is either an argument for circling the drain with England forever or a serious effort to rebalance Scottish trade to be resilient to unstable neighbours.

One of those options sounds sensible to me.

"circling the drain"

"to be resilient"

"unstable"

Your own made up phrases.

The key word you use, however, is "rebalance". This is code for decades of recession, stagnation and austerity in an attempt to get back to where we currently are.

Doesn't sound like a sensible option to me.

 

[Brother Blades]

Getting bored of ye dodging this. Just gonna rip it apart.

"Unrestricted immigration"

Nonsense. We have complete control of our borders for both EU and non EU citizens entering the country. Just because someone is Slovenian and not, say, Venezuelan does not mean we have to let them enter the country. We are not part of Schengen. On top of that even if/once we've let EU nationals into the country the European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC gives us, as it gives all EU nations, the right to expel any EU citizen. To quote it this directive "allows EU member states to repatriate EU nationals after three months if they have not found a job or do not have the means to support themselves". Other EU nations do this. We choose not to.

"Unchecked immigration"

Every person who enters the UK has to go through border security unless they do so illegally but, as an island nation, this isn't much of an issue. There are some illegal entrants to the country but these are rare. What's far more common is people entering the country legally but staying beyond their accredited time through their visa. The majority of folk who do this are from the anglosphere (Aussies, Yanks, Kiwis, Saffas, Canucks) and aren't from "3rd world countries". So don't fall foul of your "respect our values or traditions" nonsense (although one could argue Yanks would fall under this with alarming regularlity)

"large scale immigration"

This is entirely subjective but, in any case, we can easily compare it to other nations. According to the World Bank net migration when taken as a ratio of the population shows that the UK has a net migration of 14 people per 1,000 citizens. This puts us about 40th in the world (of nations that monitor these statistics. Some of the countries ahead of us, such as Afghanistan (former refugees returning after the fall of the Taliban), Lebanon (huge refugee influx) and UAE (cheap foreign labour for building projects) are outliers, obviously, but if we narrow it down to other European and anglosphere nations we're still behind Luxembourg, Singapore, Switzerland, Norway, Australia, Curacao, Canada, Cyprus, Sweden, Turkey, Bahamas, Belgium, Belize, New Caledonia, Hong Kong, Finland, Austria, Denmark, USA, Germany, Malaysia and Malta. Unless you can put a cap figure on how much migration is healthy and how much is too much, and, more importantly, give solid reasons for this rather than just subjective rhetoric all it becomes is a xenophobic dog whistle.

"unskilled men"

There is, as far as I know, no statistics available that sort immigration by gender. Why their genders matters is a mystery to me unless yer scared Julio from Guatemala's gonna shaft yer missus but, for all we know, she might run off with Sook-Wah from Cambodia instead. As for the unskilled part I've already pointed out we have complete control of our borders re: EU migrants so if unskilled migrants come for work, and fail to find any, we can boot them out. If you're coming from outwith the EU there is a five tiered point system in place that mean unskilled immigration is near impossible for many people so the migrants we receive from these nations have a higher proportion of skilled or trained professionals than the UK populace as it stands.

"third world who don't respect our values or traditions. "

The overwhelming majority of our immigrants come from ten nations: India, Poland, Pakistan, Ireland, Germany, Bangladesh, South Africa, Nigeria, United States, China. Most of these are historic with Asian and African immigration during the 50s-70s as well as a good century of so of Irish immigration. China is there due to the large number of Chinese students and historic migration. Yet, amazingly, despite coming from strictly Muslim Pakistan, patriarchal India, Apartheid South Africa, Communist China, deeply Catholic Ireland and post-communist Poland the vast majority have respected our values and traditions just fine. It's weird you claim "acceptance of LGBT" people as a value and tradition considering it was illegal to even mention the existence of homosexual relationships in school until the 90s or that homosexual sex between men was only legalised in Scotland in the 80s. We don't get to invade countries, demand they follow our ideas of civility, which, at the time, included the demonization of LGBT people, change our mind and expect them to suddenly be on the same footing as us. The thing is, however, for the most part they do learn to adapt and change upon migrating to the UK.

Assuming, however, you're talking about more recent immigration from outwith the EU the top ten countries now are China, India, Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Nigeria, South Africa, Thailand. A very similar spread to the historic immigration of the last century. So not much is changing in that regard. In fact almost half of these migrants come from China and India and the majority of them are student visas. Although a few will be on scholarships the majority are paying a fair price to go to university in the UK and then buggering off home when they're done and the ones that remain are clearly helping the economy when they do remain. The Russian and Saudi immigrants are doing so for either study or business reasons so are, in theory, also contributing to the economy but, then again, people who worry about foreigners views on LGBT rights seem to go quite quiet when Russians and Saudis are involved due to something that rhymes with "oil noney". A breakdown of these visas shows (excluding short stay travel visas) that over half (225,000) are for study. Of the remaining over half of them (100,000) are for tier 1/2 skilled jobs (most of whom are sponsored to come here) and only 65,000 are for non-skilled and temporary workers (a large portion of temporary workers will be Aussies and Kiwis doing their year overseas wanting bar work).

"What a crazy thing to be concerned about right? "

Yes. Yes it is fucking crazy. It's crazy to concerned about unchecked immigration when we are entirely able to control it. It's crazy to be worried about large scale immigration when it's a bit of a push to call the immigration to our nation large scale. It's crazy to be worried about unskilled men when the majority of migrants are skilled or here to study and it's batshit mental to worry about them coming from the third world (they don't) or that they don't respect our values or traditions (they do)

(I know, I know... tl;dr)

That Sir, is quite a “Telt”
Chapeau to you & your kin.

[Iabella Duke]

38 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I might be off the mark but I think this is what Labour need.

DUP have been seething about May for ages and saying they can't back her as PM. Guarantee she's in place and that is likely going to be enough for them to back a VONC in the government right this instant. That then means that they can trigger the vote over the next two days, win and then it gives the government, controlled by May, 2 weeks to fight for their existence with either the incumbent or an interim leader. If they don't resolve it by that deadline, parliament gets dissolved and there is likely a new election at the end of January. The Tories would potentially be fighting that election with no leader or one in which the party hates to an extent where a substantial number of the parliamentary party have voted against and the base also hates. It's the dream scenario.

Maybe the Tories secretly want another election to be trounced so they can wash their hands of this issue without dishonouring the party and being the people responsible for Corbyn etc. I would imagine that they are well aware of this scenario (the DUP will have warned them) and it's all to play for this evening. It presents a risk but even a shit new leader can at least have the space to get them onto an election footing.

DUP would back May in a VONC IMO.

Labour won't call VONC as they also believe DUP will back May and even, if they didn't, they are behind the Tories in the polls so may well lose another GE!

[ICTJohnboy]

21 minutes ago, Detournement said:

She said "Inconstant Gardener".

Which was a reference to a John Le Carre novel and the fact that Corbyn has an allotment. Which is apparently hilarious if you are a backbench Tory.

She probably had it in reserve for  while and thought she mights as well use it today or she won't get the chance!

 

I guess you're right there, mainly because it was obvious that Corbyn didn't get the connection.

 I still say incontinent would have been a more appropriate choice of word.

[the jambo-rocker]

2 hours ago, weegienative said:

Have you read cover to cover the paper you've quoted or just the headline?

The data they have used is flawed and based correlation as causation.

Your point on informing kids about lgbt stuff at an early age could be made without implication of some homophobic dark ages views by me. Teach kids to be a good person and not to discriminate or treat people poorly because they are different. Isn't that enough? Must we eradicate every aspect of childhood innocence?

 

I've read enough of it to know that you've either read the paper cover-to-cover before yourself and are cherry picking the data (with no reasoning to why the data is actually flawed) and using that one element to dismiss the entire paper, or you've immediately made it up, dismissed it and are therefore full of shite. Guess which one I'm siding towards?...

Oooh won't someone please think of the children! The general point being that the young kids will be informed about these issues from a neutral perspective and early on. I'm not saying it will solve the social aspect, but at least it's a solution offering something worthy of a shot compared to the status quo; because you've offered no real solution that has directly addressed the point other than "Just teach kids to be a good people and not to discriminate m'kay!". You've literally said f**k all here.

Edited December 12, 2018 by the jambo-rocker

[Jeff Venom]

Oh look, another new member shouting the same things at the same people with precisely zero to back them up. Zzzzzz.

[Brother Blades]

There was a film (I suppose a book to) titled 'the constant gardener'.  Not sure what it's about.

I watched a VHS in the 80’s called “uphill gardener” is this related?