Jacksgranda Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 7 hours ago, Gordon EF said: I skipped tea last Friday to go to the pub early thinking I'd grab a pizza on the way home. Stayed out a bit late and everywhere was shut. Could have been me. Better luck next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 29/10/2016 at 22:59, milhouse said: One of the big problems in this story is that it shows complete intolerance of anyone who holds the view that marriage should be defined as between one man and women. Reverse it to homosexual bakers refusing to make a cake with a pro-Christian message - there would be no criticism. There will be no lobbying of the Muslim faith, for example, to accept same-sex marriage. In the near future, sexual freedom will overrule religious freedom for the Christian faith. How very oliberal. No. As we've just seen, there would be. It would also be illegal, also as we have just seen. That's precisely the point of the whole court case. Not that you've made an equivalence there, but the Christians involved would be just as free to take legal proceedings as the people who brought about this case. The equivalence would be homosexual bakers refusing to bake a cake with an anti-homosexual message. And in that case, they'd be entirely right. And in case you've missed it, the same savage right wing tabloids which rail against decisions like this are also the same red tops which rail against Shariah law (except the anti-gay bits, which they quite like), and would be first to champion the pro-Christian plaintiffs. For most people, religious intolerance is religious intolerance irrespective of the religion. Intolerance of bigotry is not at all the same. And I think you know that. Anyone who holds the view that marriage should be defined as between one man and women is, most likely, a Mormon, but I know what you meant. And it's still backwards, outdated and utterly unreconstructed prejudice. The Christian faith will always have religious freedom, inside the confines of their own churches. Once it impinges on the lives of others, then no dice. It gets trumped by common decency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I disagree with the bakers... but they are surely free to sell cakes to who they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I skipped tea last Friday to go to the pub early thinking I'd grab a pizza on the way home. Stayed out a bit late and everywhere was shut. Could have been me. Were you looking for "Support gay marriage" in red peppers picked out on your pizza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I'm all for gay rights and I understand the logic the court has used to come to its decision, but what gives me pause here is that this is not about a refusal to serve gay people but concerns an objection to a political message. Even Peter Tatchell has said the decision "sets a dangerous, authoritarian precedent that is open to serious abuse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, Bearwithme said: Even Peter Tatchell has said the decision "sets a dangerous, authoritarian precedent that is open to serious abuse". Decent odds that he'll now be attacked by the LGBT community for going off 'Progressive' reservation with his Wrongthink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 5 hours ago, Hampden Diehard said: Were you looking for "Support gay marriage" in red peppers picked out on your pizza? I haven't actually requested a leftard wrongthink slogan on my pizza before. Maybe I'll ask for something like 'gender is social construct designed by the patriarchy to oppress humans who possess vaginas" spelt out in sausage meat next time, see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 8 hours ago, banana said: Decent odds that he'll now be attacked by the LGBT community for going off 'Progressive' reservation with his Wrongthink. Tatchell's not exactly been seeing eye to eye with the mainstream gay rights brigade for over a decade, so I'm wondering how much of this is repositioning on his part to get support. The mainstream gay groups like Stonewall appear to have got themselves into a rather lurid marriage of convenience with the weirdos of the various self styled Secular Societies (which appear to be packed with Operation Yewtree visitations waiting to happen) who won't be seen for dust the moment they try taking on Muslims or any other religious grouping with a tendency to be more, ahem "forward" when it comes to defending perceived encroachments on their faith. To be fair, now that the likes of Stonewall have moved their party line from enforcing tolerance to enforcing acceptance, they were always going to alienate a big chunk of the LGBT crowd in the process. I remember years ago being told by one of the GU Lesbian & Gay Society (as it was back then) head honchos (after one too many from a lethal punch someone in the local Green Group had put together containing God only knows what) that trying to get any of them to agree to united action on anything was like dealing with the Trade Union Congress in bonzai. Beyond what floated their boat, they'd little in common with one another & beyond their own pet interests didn't care about gay issues broadbrush - result, if there was not any direct trade to be done ("you support me on this, I'll support you on that"), matters never got any further forward beyond organising the next Flexisex disco at the QMU (which inevitably got invaded by a pack of Goths & ended up an unintended pseudo Rocky Horror night instead!). This was supposed to be the future intelligentia, the LGBT leaders of tomorrow, but they couldn't see beyond their own self interests. It's probably lucky that attitudes had been changing amongst the future political classes (much of it jockeying for support, but never mind) anyway, because had it been left to the wannabe Pink pioneers for a Brave New World, little would ever have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 5 hours ago, Gordon EF said: I haven't actually requested a leftard wrongthink slogan on my pizza before. Maybe I'll ask for something like 'gender is social construct designed by the patriarchy to oppress humans who possess vaginas" spelt out in sausage meat next time, see what happens. Just go in with leather chaps on and ask for a 'Mighty Meaty' and let them draw their own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 12 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said: now that the likes of Stonewall have moved their party line from enforcing tolerance to enforcing acceptance Stonewall has been superb in promoting LGBT 'tolerance' and you see that if you visit any big City of London bank or law firm. They see it as a mark of respect for having a job well done in having a Stonewall banner in their atrium. You'll see in Freshfields, Goldman Sachs, KPMG et al having massive banners proclaiming "No # in The Stonewall League". This is recidivist dross. Every fucking company in Britain should declare they do not give a f**k about the gender/sexual orientation of the folk they employ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 45 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Stonewall has been superb in promoting LGBT 'tolerance' and you see that if you visit any big City of London bank or law firm. They see it as a mark of respect for having a job well done in having a Stonewall banner in their atrium. You'll see in Freshfields, Goldman Sachs, KPMG et al having massive banners proclaiming "No # in The Stonewall League". This is recidivist dross. Every fucking company in Britain should declare they do not give a f**k about the gender/sexual orientation of the folk they employ. No Kincardine, this is not recidivist dross, this is you once again not knowing what you're talking about. Stonewall's line has hardened (now they're sure of their support in high places since the Tories had ceased pretending to be the "family values" party rather than the "stately homos" favourite) so their motto now reads: Stonewall | Acceptance without exception Do keep up! As for those "mark of respect", it's for "sponsoring" (ie. cash bung) for a Stonewall initiative, making a "gay" product they get first dabs on endorsing (for a fee, of course) or for advertising in their rags. It's called "corporate partnership", it's what every charity from Cats Protection/Dogs Trust upwards has been doing for years, getting free money/services from some corporation in return for enhancing their public "cuddliness" and thus custom. I don't like Tatchell & sure as hell don't trust him after the PIE affair but he's right to call out Stonewall & their like for an increasingly intolerent line to mask becoming sell out corporate whores, especially after hosting a gala dinner at the Dorchester in London a month after its owner, the Sultan of Brunei had made homosexual activity punishable by stoning to death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 minute ago, WaffenThinMint said: No Kincardine, this is not recidivist dross, this is you once again not knowing what you're talking about. I know absolutely what I am talking about and, also absolutely, Stonewall garners large company plaudits for having 'LGBT Friendly policies'. My take is prosaic: Stonewall and its marketing geegaws have had their day and we sensible blokes do not need attribution for just employing folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 3 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: Stonewall has been superb in promoting LGBT 'tolerance' and you see that if you visit any big City of London bank or law firm. They see it as a mark of respect for having a job well done in having a Stonewall banner in their atrium. You'll see in Freshfields, Goldman Sachs, KPMG et al having massive banners proclaiming "No # in The Stonewall League". This is recidivist dross. Every fucking company in Britain should declare they do not give a f**k about the gender/sexual orientation of the folk they employ. There's loads of easy publicity now in being seen to be pro-LGBT hence why every bank and big corp has a presence at Pride these days. It's sparked a lot of reflection on the part of LGBT activists though and led to the creation of Free Pride within Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 6 minutes ago, NotThePars said: There's loads of easy publicity now in being seen to be pro-LGBT hence why every bank and big corp has a presence at Pride these days. It's sparked a lot of reflection on the part of LGBT activists though and led to the creation of Free Pride within Glasgow. I could guess what that means but it would be useful if you could explain it. It's a tough one. I respect 'big companies' but I suspect their LGBT efforts are often tokenistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: I could guess what that means but it would be useful if you could explain it. It's a tough one. I respect 'big companies' but I suspect their LGBT efforts are often tokenistic. It's just Pride... but it's free. And oh aye of course it's tokenistic I doubt the Royal Bank of Scotland top brass were throwing bricks at Stonewall. It's easy publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 5 minutes ago, NotThePars said: It's just Pride... but it's free. And oh aye of course it's tokenistic I doubt the Royal Bank of Scotland top brass were throwing bricks at Stonewall. It's easy publicity. I wonder how this varies by region. In the SE I'd say 'Pride' as a carnival is fun but as a political movement is behind the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Good insight chaps, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Bruce Robertson Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I wonder what Gunthers opinion is on this? He has many "gay" friends who aren't into ""hetero" sports, maybe they should take up the more "feminine" pastime of cake decoration? Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 On 01/11/2016 at 18:55, John Lambies Doos said: I disagree with the bakers... but they are surely free to sell cakes to who they want. As long as they're not fairy cakes, for then they would be hypocrite s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 apologies about the big letters, will explain later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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