Gordon EF Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Meth Damon said: Do you think of Islam as the same? Pretty sure "sky-fairy fantasists" covers Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 15 hours ago, Granny Danger said: I am absolutely delighted by this decision I hope the c***s are bankrupted by the court costs and are driven out of business. A good day for progressive thinking and a bad one for homophobes, homophobe apologists and sky-fairy fuckwits. Thank you for once against highlighting the deranged, totalitarian nature of the modern 'Progressive' movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 22 minutes ago, Meth Damon said: Do you think of Islam as the same? why would Islam get a free pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thank you for once against highlighting the deranged, totalitarian nature of the modern 'Progressive' movement. This is one of the reasons that I am a bit frustrated by this as I feel it does the wider progressive movement harm by making it seem as though progressive politics and ideas require a loss of liberty. Things like this and small groups of extremists at universities etc are becoming increasingly intolerant and illiberal in their acceptance of views which don't conform to their views. With the vast majority of 'progressives' (and I include myself in that umbrella) we don't want to stifle views we disagree with, we simply want to disagree with them.It reminds me somewhat of the Timothy Stanley abortion debate which was planned at a university down south, but was cancelled due to the topic of abortion apparently being too offensive to have a debate on. I disagree with the vast majority of Timothy Stanley's views and feel very confidently that abortion should remain legal, but it was extremely frustrating to see these views silenced on campus. The trigger warning generation are probably though doing more harm to their (and my) causes because as soon as these views are hidden, people who hold them feel persecuted and they start to think that people like Farage or Trump or Clarkson speak for them. I think there has been a misstep somewhere and people are confusing what is offensive and what is harmful and thinking to be offended is to be harmed. This concerns me for multiple reasons, not least because it makes progressive views easier to dismiss and makes the people we should be aiming to convert feel persecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 46 minutes ago, jmothecat said: This is one of the reasons that I am a bit frustrated by this as I feel it does the wider progressive movement harm by making it seem as though progressive politics and ideas require a loss of liberty. Things like this and small groups of extremists at universities etc are becoming increasingly intolerant and illiberal in their acceptance of views which don't conform to their views. With the vast majority of 'progressives' (and I include myself in that umbrella) we don't want to stifle views we disagree with, we simply want to disagree with them. It reminds me somewhat of the Timothy Stanley abortion debate which was planned at a university down south, but was cancelled due to the topic of abortion apparently being too offensive to have a debate on. I disagree with the vast majority of Timothy Stanley's views and feel very confidently that abortion should remain legal, but it was extremely frustrating to see these views silenced on campus. If it's the case that these are only small groups of extremists that are the problem (it isn't, it's an indoctrinated mass being churned out of universities, yes with extremists included) then how about joining me by repeatedly sticking your neck out and uncompromisingly criticizing them and the system of indoctrination? Clean your own house as I'm trying to (I'm a disaffected leftie believe it or not). It's a daily theme now across US/Canadian campuses, and it will spread more here. Cracker from a few days ago where the posters advertising a rogue feminist author/academic's talk on intolerance and victimhood... were all torn down bar one A few weeks before she needed the protection of 30 campus cops for another talk. http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/22/columbia-u-students-tear-down-posters-ad http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8228 46 minutes ago, jmothecat said: The trigger warning generation are probably though doing more harm to their (and my) causes because as soon as these views are hidden, people who hold them feel persecuted and they start to think that people like Farage or Trump or Clarkson speak for them. Yes, thank you. The left/'Progressives' have by silencing dissenting views for so long have created the rise of the right and given a voice to the more extreme aspects of the right. Spread the self-reflection to fellow 'Progressives' and lefties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 34 minutes ago, banana said: Cracker ^^^Racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 could you possibly explain what benefit there is to tolerating intolerance and bigotry in society? could you also take care in explaining what views have been "silenced" by "the left/progressives"( whio have never been in a weaker or more disorganised state since around 1871, and who influence absolutely nothing as far as I can see?) if men want to have sex with other men, or women want to have sex with other women, and they are happy and fulfilled in their lives by doing so then I can't see what business it is of anybody else's. This seems to have nothing to do with "silencing" other views, just common decency and humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 29 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said: could you possibly explain what benefit there is to tolerating intolerance and bigotry in society? It's called tolerance in practice, as opposed to merely being a platitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 so, for example, you would "tolerate in practice" homophobia, religious bigotry, Holocaust denial, etc? what does that even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 20 hours ago, DrewDon said: And, thankfully, it also gives people the freedom to label those who hold and espouse backwards-thinking, homophobic views, backwards-thinking homophobes. True. But just because you have the freedom to be an asshole, doesn't mean you need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 55 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said: could you possibly explain what benefit there is to tolerating intolerance and bigotry in society? could you also take care in explaining what views have been "silenced" by "the left/progressives"( whio have never been in a weaker or more disorganised state since around 1871, and who influence absolutely nothing as far as I can see?) if men want to have sex with other men, or women want to have sex with other women, and they are happy and fulfilled in their lives by doing so then I can't see what business it is of anybody else's. This seems to have nothing to do with "silencing" other views, just common decency and humanity. You let them make an idiot of themselves and they serve as an example to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 What if the message had been "Support Fox Hunting" or "Support Trident" or "Support UKIP"? What if it was a bakery run by vegans and the message was "Support the Meat Industry"? The people at the bakery probably go to church regularly and would have to explain their decision to their congregation. I could easily see the risk of ex-communication. I think for them it was a choice between a rock and a hard place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 What if the message had been "Support Fox Hunting" or "Support Trident" or "Support UKIP"? What if it was a bakery run by vegans and the message was "Support the Meat Industry"? The people at the bakery probably go to church regularly and would have to explain their decision to their congregation. I could easily see the risk of ex-communication. I think for them it was a choice between a rock and a hard place. Im sure its a hot topic at sky fairy school every sunday"How was your week" "Fine,yourself""All good,did you bake any gay cakes this week""No refused to do it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said: could you possibly explain what benefit there is to tolerating intolerance and bigotry in society? could you also take care in explaining what views have been "silenced" by "the left/progressives"( whio have never been in a weaker or more disorganised state since around 1871, and who influence absolutely nothing as far as I can see?) if men want to have sex with other men, or women want to have sex with other women, and they are happy and fulfilled in their lives by doing so then I can't see what business it is of anybody else's. This seems to have nothing to do with "silencing" other views, just common decency and humanity. It's a small section of society, but there's definitely a 'safe space' culture developing at universities where student groups are refusing to allow people with views they don't like (and not necessarily extreme views) are being refused platforms to debate their ideas. It's idiotic and dangerous, but then in my experience at Aberdeen, almost anyone I met who was involved in student politics was an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: It's a small section of society, but there's definitely a 'safe space' culture developing at universities where student groups are refusing to allow people with views they don't like (and not necessarily extreme views) are being refused platforms to debate their ideas. It's idiotic and dangerous, but then in my experience at Aberdeen, almost anyone I met who was involved in student politics was an idiot. ^^^This. Showing vids of daft students or stories of daft motions or rules in colleges or student unions doesn't mean anything for the real world. It's all forgotten about when they graduate and try to find a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 24 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: It's a small section of society, but there's definitely a 'safe space' culture developing at universities where student groups are refusing to allow people with views they don't like (and not necessarily extreme views) are being refused platforms to debate their ideas. It's idiotic and dangerous, but then in my experience at Aberdeen, almost anyone I met who was involved in student politics was an idiot. Beyond one rather extreme example at Goldsmiths in London (Bahar Mustafa being the indivdual responsible) I see no evidence of "safe space" extremism taking root in Scottish campuses- and as you say it's a tiny sliver of society with no real traction in the world beyond the campus. FWIW I have absolutely no problem with no platforming fascists and / or homophobic bigots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcat1990 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 If you start letting the state regulate opinions and beliefs where does it end? We live in a time where a joke on twitter about bombing an airport can land you in court and this case is just another example of the increasingly authoritarian times we live in. I don't wish to go full libertarian in that you can run around screaming offensive things in peoples faces, but having the government censoring or charging opinions we don't like is a dangerous game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 56 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Im sure its a hot topic at sky fairy school every sunday "How was your week" "Fine,yourself" "All good,did you bake any gay cakes this week" "No refused to do it" I wouldn't know since I don't go to church much ( .. or actually at all) However, we are talking about Northern Ireland - which is known to have a fiery minister or two ".. and the Lord said this .. and the Lord said that .. and God have mercy on anyone who transgresses .. or questions the Lord's word." or something like that. Imagine if they invited the minister home after the service for a cup of tea and there had been a mix up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 .. and another thing. Nobody seems to have noticed but Bert and Ernie are actually just puppets. If you put them in the same bed together - what exactly is it you expect to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcat1990 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 .. and another thing. Nobody seems to have noticed but Bert and Ernie are actually just puppets. If you put them in the same bed together - what exactly is it you expect to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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