welshbairn Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I'm amazed they managed to find a straight cake decorator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: From what I read earlier, all parties accepted the bakers didn't know about the persuasion of the person who ordered the cake. They weren't refusing to sell cakes to LGBT people. They declined the business due to the message... "Support Gay Marriage - Queerspace" with a couple of childrens TV characters... which they felt conflicted with their beliefs. It was decided this was in itself still unlawful discrimination. If it becomes a precedent, it redefines someone's ability to accept/decline business - in the literal sense 'discriminate' - on grounds of conscience. Printers wouldn't be able to decline orders from anti-immigration organisations; advertisers to decline bookings from extremist political groups; and so on. That's a new development. It cuts both ways anyway - it so happens this case was this way around.If applied equitably, an LGBT baker can be required to produce a cake with an anti-LGBT message they find distressing or offensive. Cinemas which refused a Church of England website ad last Christmas as the inclusion of the Lord's Prayer 'potentially causes offence to others' would be on even shakier ground. This is the key point for me - if the scenario was flipped around, and a "Skyfairyist" was asking a LGBT baker to write Leviticus 20:13 on a cake, would they be allowed to refuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: This is the key point for me - if the scenario was flipped around, and a "Skyfairyist" was asking a LGBT baker to write Leviticus 20:13 on a cake, would they be allowed to refuse? Probably yes, on the basis of having to lift the cake would put his back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just now, Jacksgranda said: Probably yes, on the basis of having to lift the cake would put his back out. If it was a wedding cake, they could have it spread across the tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It's my birthday next week, are there any bakers in Edinburgh I can offend? Maybe I could get a cake baked at a Christian bakery of Leanne Dempster lezzing up Ann Budge, that would cover Hibees, Jambos and Christians. Lesbians too IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just now, ICTChris said: It's my birthday next week, are there any bakers in Edinburgh I can offend? Maybe I could get a cake baked at a Christian bakery of Leanne Dempster lezzing up Ann Budge, that would cover Hibees, Jambos and Christians. Lesbians too IMO. There aren't many people that wouldn't offend tbh. A proper test case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 22 minutes ago, cal234ey said: Some quotes from the owners: "I think it's fair to say it's been a hard time, but God has been our rock, and it's just through our trust in him that we've been able to be unshaken and unmoved by it. "He's really used this time to strengthen our faith in him, and that's only been a good thing for us as individuals, for our marriage and for our family." Would love it (Kevin Keegan style) if a relative of theirs came out at some point. Clearly sexist too IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I think that's the way I would look at things. I am concerned as I disagree with the baker's decision, I disagree with their opposition to equal marriage, but I disagree more with their freedom to refuse to make a cake bearing a logo of something they disagree with.If I were a baker there would be a lot of issues I would be unwilling to make a cake in favour of. Banning abortion, opposition to gay rights, anything racist, anything calling Tony Blair a war criminal, anything sexist, or what I would deem to be prejudiced, anything that I find personally abhorrent, and I would wish to be able to refuse to make such cakes. I think if I am to enjoy that freedom, so too should people whose views I disagree with.With the gay couple at the b&b situation I would very much side with the gay couple as in that case they are being refused service. Similarly if this customer came in and just wanted to buy a plain cake and was refused, I would be very much opposed to the bakery and would support fines against them. In this case however I think the wrong decision was made. This sums up my views perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 25 minutes ago, Romeo said: It would actually make perfect sense. But you know that now and will just pile in with insults as a way of covering up being a complete jakey. I see you're handling the message/messenger distinction in a way we'd expect of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINBARR FLOOD Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 24 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar said: I'm of the opinion that this should never have went to court in the first place. They should have respected the bakers reasons for the refusal. This was' t discrimination . This was a party acting out their beliefs wether you agree or disagree with them. I think the gay community here have seen an opportunity of publicity here and went for it. These bakers should be left alone with their beliefs. Nobody has to shop there. Apparently they can't keep up with the orders from sympathetic customers. You sometimes have to lose to win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Did they ever get a cake? The ordered a cake saying God doesn't like gay people very much. The bakery was happy to oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 9 hours ago, MikeandSheila said: Did they ever get a cake? Not from Ashers, as far as I know. I would imagine they got a cake elsewhere, probably ended up inundated with cakes, a la Test Match Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehawhehaw Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 14 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said: Tough titty for the homophobes. Right decision IMO. GIRUY How very prejudice,narrow minded and ignorant. GIRUY says it all about your attitude. However, Christians should worship the founder not the religion. I'm sure that's what homosexual Christians do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 11 hours ago, ICTChris said: It's my birthday next week, are there any bakers in Edinburgh I can offend? Maybe I could get a cake baked at a Christian bakery of Leanne Dempster lezzing up Ann Budge, that would cover Hibees, Jambos and Christians. Lesbians too IMO. .. or you could have "Glasgow is a nicer place." Only problem is this. They decide what goes in the cake. You might have chronic constipation for a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainspotter Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Only problem is this. They decide what goes in the cake. You might have chronic constipation for a week! This crossed my mind as well. Now, as anyone who's ever seen Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat will know: "He restored the chief cupbearer to his position, so that he once again put the cup into Pharaoh’s hand— but he impaled the chief baker, just as Joseph had said to them in his interpretation" (Genesis,40) and as anyone who's ever seen Laugh? I Nearly Paid My Licence Fee will also know: "It's all there in the Bible- you just have to jumble up the words a bit." (Mason Boyne) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 "And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God". Jesus was gay. I'm not sure what his views on cake were though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, hehawhehaw said: GIRUY says it all about your attitude. In this specific case, yes it does. No tolerance for bigots, homophobes and sky-fairy fantasists in 2016. Life is hard enough without red faced intolerants telling you how to live your life or who to have sex with (because they or some semi-imaginary figure from 2,000 years ago say so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meth Damon Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said: In this specific case, yes it does. No tolerance for bigots, homophobes and sky-fairy fantasists in 2016. Life is hard enough without red faced intolerants telling you how to live your life or who to have sex with (because they or some semi-imaginary figure from 2,000 years ago say so) Do you think of Islam as the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said: In this specific case, yes it does. No tolerance for bigots, homophobes and sky-fairy fantasists in 2016. Life is hard enough without red faced intolerants telling you how to live your life or who to have sex with (because they or some semi-imaginary figure from 2,000 years ago say so) No tolerance for intolerance eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think the obvious answer here would have been for the customer to go elsewhere and publicise why they went elsewhere. While I think the crazy relgious nuts running the shop are demented bigots, they are perfectly entitled to be demented bigots if that is how they want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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