TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stinky Bone said: This is exactly the thing that annoys me. A flag on it's own cannot be racist or supportive of a faction. Only the flag bearer or organisation that has attached itself to the use of a flag as a symbol of its principles can be. For example, when I fly my Saltire proudly, I am not being racist towards the English, I am being proud of my country, but I have met many people that are also proud of the Saltire, yet hate Englishmen. When Amazon decided to ban the sale of the Confederate battle flag, I was disappointed, because as I have mentioned it is not the flag itself that is the problem. It is similar to the Union flag being seen as English and the Saltire being Scottish. The Confederate battle flag is modelled on the Scottish Saltire. Look Away by William C. Davis is a good read to get historical fact about the U.S. Civil war. And while I am mentioning books, Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee by Dee Williams is an insight into European invasion into America and the effect it had on the Native Americans. Make sure you have a box of tissues, because our ancestors were pure evil. I think it has something to do with field orders and morale. There are flags that represent a group of people. The Confederate flag falls into that category, like the Scottish flag. These flags can also have ideological meaning, but that's not the primary purpose. Flags like the Nazi flag or the Red Communist flags or the Gadsen US flag are more pure ideological. Edited August 16, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Checking in with the Progressive Liberal at Dukes Fest, a Dukes of Hazzard themed festival in Virginia. I'd appreciate it if people would try to comprehend what I'm saying. I think I was pretty clear. A false flag is a set up and fake, correct? This really happened, but it was not organic. There's no other explanation for what happened then that the Democrat politicians wanted there to be a violent confrontation between people waving Nazi flags and counter protestors. Perhaps they didn't want to be seen as enabling an armed mob chanting racist and anti-semitic abuse, especially after the torch lit parade the night before. I assume by your second point that you mean that the criminal justice system in the south hasn't improved since the days of lynchings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Dat Shillary t shirt Where can I get one ? Asking for a friend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: There are flags that represent a group of people. The Confederate flag falls into that category, like the Scottish flag. These flags can also have ideological meaning, but that's not the primary purpose. Flags like the Nazi flag or the Red Communist flags or the Gadsen US flag are more pure ideological. How is the Confederate flag less ideological than the Nazi flag? It was more or less forgotten till the Sixties, and is specifically held up as a momento of and support for White domination. How many Southern Blacks or Liberals have it flying in their garden? Like the Scottish flag my arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, welshbairn said: How is the Confederate flag less ideological than the Nazi flag? It was more or less forgotten till the Sixties, and is specifically held up as a momento of and support for White domination. How many Southern Blacks or Liberals have it flying in their garden? Like the Scottish flag my arse. Because the Confederate flag represents an ethnic group, Southern white people. That doesn't mean it doesn't have various political meanings as well. All flags do. I'd argue the Nazi flag is purely political. You can't argue it also represents the German people. Maybe a good comp for the Confederate flag is like that Northern Ireland flag. Not quite sure if that's right, but it seems comparable. If the Confederate flag was forgotten until the Civil Rights movement, why was this made the Flag of Mississippi in 1894? Edited August 16, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I was an adult before I realized that the Confederate flag was considered racist by some people. In West Virginia when I was growing up Civil War reenactments were popular, since the locals had ancestors that fought on different sides. My dad's best friend was huge into it so I went to a couple as a kid. People would line up on whichever side their family had fought, or whichever side they liked best. At the high school I went to in Indiana the students used to have Rebel Flag Fridays and the whole student body would show up to school wearing Confederate flag gear. It was meant as a symbol of youth rebellion. Our official student designed senior shirt which I still have has a Confederate flag right on the back of it. I never heard anybody mention race in either place, but I will admit it might be different in places where there were black people. I'm not 100% sure. When I lived in Georgia as an adult it was after they had changed the official state flag from to The funny thing is that the new flag was based on the flag of the Confederate state, rather than the General Lee's battle flag. Here's the actual Confederate States flag. I will say that I never saw a single person flying the new flag, but the old flag was everywhere tacked up in people's houses. Edited August 16, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 When Johnny comes home again......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Because the Confederate flag represents and ethnic group, Southern white people. That doesn't mean it doesn't have various political meanings as well. All flags do. I'd argue the Nazi flag is purely political. You can't argue it also represents the German people. Maybe a good comp for the Confederate flag is like that Northern Ireland flag. Not quite sure if that's right, but it seems comparable. If the Confederate flag was forgotten until the Civil Rights movement, why was this made the Flag of Mississippi in 1894? Still many people alive who fought in it. The Nazi flag was for people who thought Jews were untermensch. The Confederate flag does the same for black people. And Jews again for many of the Nativists/White Nationalists/White Supremacists/KKK/Nazis. Where would you place yourself on the spectrum? How do you feel about Jews having high positions in Hollywood and Wall Street for example? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just watched the Vice documentary. Fucking hell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Still many people alive who fought in it. The Nazi flag was for people who thought Jews were untermensch. The Confederate flag does the same for black people. And Jews again for many of the Nativists/White Nationalists/White Supremacists/KKK/Nazis. Where would you place yourself on the spectrum? How do you feel about Jews having high positions in Hollywood and Wall Street for example? There were Jews who were very high in the Confederate government, including the Cabinet if you didn't know. I don't think anti-Semitism is included in the various racisms of the Confederacy. Can't say I have many thoughts on Jews. Don't think I've met more than a couple. They were nice. I did read a funny article comparing prominent Jewish conservatives freaking out about Trump's proposed wall and immigration policy compared with their previous statements about Israel's border wall and even some arguing for removing Muslims from Israel proper as part of a peace settlement. Protestants, Catholics, and Jews have different voting habits on average. Probably partially due to ethnic history, partially due to class history, and partially due to geography. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Because the Confederate flag represents an ethnic group, Southern white people. That doesn't mean it doesn't have various political meanings as well. All flags do. I'd argue the Nazi flag is purely political. You can't argue it also represents the German people. Maybe a good comp for the Confederate flag is like that Northern Ireland flag. Not quite sure if that's right, but it seems comparable. If the Confederate flag was forgotten until the Civil Rights movement, why was this made the Flag of Mississippi in 1894? There's no such ethnic group. Until a century ago many parts of the south still spoke the different languages of the different ethnic groups that had invaded/ emigrated there - Gaelic, Dutch, German, Danish, Slavic tongues, French, different Creoles, Spanish as well as some extant native tongues. They had different tongues, religions, nationalities, cultural traditions, music and skin colours - even within 'white' people. Invented histories for Nazis, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 One guy who's cool as... and a ton of backward freaks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Stinky Bone said: I think it has something to do with field orders and morale. Does it, aye? A bagpipe is to morale as Donald Trump is to having normal sized hands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: There were Jews who were very high in the Confederate government, including the Cabinet if you didn't know. I don't think anti-Semitism is included in the various racisms of the Confederacy. Can't say I have many thoughts on Jews. Don't think I've met more than a couple. They were nice. I did read a funny article comparing prominent Jewish conservatives freaking out about Trump's proposed wall and immigration policy compared with their previous statements about Israel's border wall and even some arguing for removing Muslims from Israel proper as part of a peace settlement. Protestants, Catholics, and Jews have different voting habits on average. Probably partially due to ethnic history, partially due to class history, and partially due to geography. Your Nativist and White Nationalist co-travellers don't seem so ambivilent. Even annoyed that Trump allowed his daughter to marry one apparently. Donald's still the Daddy though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 This thread defo needed a fleg debate IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 That vice report is absolutely shocking. Must watch stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 hours ago, WILLIEA said: Speechless fuckin speechless after watching that. Me too. Wid. Excellent camera work too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 As much as the cringe hipster tag is so valid towards Vice journalists their filmed material is second to none. Still has to be asked how the f**k they managed to film ISIS first hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, NotThePars said: As much as the cringe hipster tag is so valid towards Vice journalists their filmed material is second to none. Still has to be asked how the f**k they managed to film ISIS first hand. This video that Crossbill posted of Christopher Cantwell, an internet shock jock of Radical Agenda, whatever that is, and star arsehole in the Vice piece, just after the Vice timeline is worth a watch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Jmothecat2 said: Watching the 'alt-right' commentators and journalists in America trying to spin this is quite a sight. My personal favourite claiming that the Neo-Nazis are national socialists and therefore leftists. Reynards favourite hobby. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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