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If Trump had any support for it he would have invaded Venezuela, he was actively pitching the idea to neighbouring countries. All that oil. Seems he thought it would be as easy as Panama and Grenada, like that Woody Allen film Bananas.

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10 minutes ago, harry94 said:

George Bush is an insanely clever guy.

Why did he invade Iraq then? I always blamed that on greedy c***s like Cheney and lunatics like Perle and Wolfowitz, with Dubya doing what he was told. Even his Dad warned him against it, knowing a civil war would be inevitable. That's why he pulled out so quickly after Kuwait.

Edited by welshbairn
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Just now, welshbairn said:

Why did he invade Iraq then? I always blamed that on greedy c***s like Cheney and lunatics like Perle and Wolfowitz, with Dubya doing what he was told.

The overall riding goal has always been imperialism. You don't wait for events to unfold, you assert your own influence as early as possible. It's not an uncommon viewpoint, it's something that you'd say is typical for every living US President and a strategy that you could at least try to produce an ethical defence from.

Bush just happened to be born into the Republican Party. The likes of Cheney, Perle and Wolfowitz were heavily embedded into the fabric of the party and served under his father and Reagan in plenty of prior shady shit. It was basically a deal, you make me president and you get to manage all the foreign policy shit to advance our strategic interests - a loose agreement of basic concepts. Iraq wasn't really a change of direction, it was just the same shitty people who had influence for decades getting a new lease of life with the 'war on terror'.

I think he probably feels he made wrong decisions and he was certainly prone to blunders (as every US president has been) but he got what he really wanted IMO. 

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Just now, harry94 said:

The overall riding goal has always been imperialism. You don't wait for events to unfold, you assert your own influence as early as possible. It's not an uncommon viewpoint, it's something that you'd say is typical for every living US President and a strategy that you could at least try to produce an ethical defence from.

Bush just happened to be born into the Republican Party. The likes of Cheney, Perle and Wolfowitz were heavily embedded into the fabric of the party and served under his father and Reagan in plenty of prior shady shit. It was basically a deal, you make me president and you get to manage all the foreign policy shit to advance our strategic interests - a loose agreement of basic concepts. Iraq wasn't really a change of direction, it was just the same shitty people who had influence for decades getting a new lease of life with the 'war on terror'.

I think he probably feels he made wrong decisions and he was certainly prone to blunders (as every US president has been) but he got what he really wanted IMO. 

The Iraq war was disaster on every level, and predicted by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the area. They were totally played by Iran who fed the dodgy "intelligence" through Chalabi and ended up in de facto control. $2.4 trillion to hand over power and influence to your biggest regional foe (too thick to realise it's actually Saudi Arabia). That doesn't strike me as "insanely clever".

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3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The Iraq war was disaster on every level, and predicted by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the area. They were totally played by Iran who fed the dodgy "intelligence" through Chalabi and ended up in de facto control. $2.4 trillion to hand over power and influence to your biggest regional foe (too thick to realise it's actually Saudi Arabia). That doesn't strike me as "insanely clever".

 

Insane maybe, but certainly not clever.

 

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5 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Is our already discredited government seriously considering setting up trade agreements with Trump's America?

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/usa-oxfam-report-finds-poultry-workers-forced-to-wear-nappies-as-they-are-denied-adequate-toilet-breaks-suffer-danger-to-health

Tell them to GTF.

I blame Obama.

Well he was President when Oxfam reported that.

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The guy is as thick as pigshit.  That is why he has not submitted himself to one serious media interview or engaged in one genuine political debate.
He knows nothing about foreign policy, domestic policy, the economy, defence, environmental issues, the legal system, etc, etc, etc.
The ignoramus who became President. 
My first question wouldn't be political but asking him why, despite his billions, he has a shit awful wig.
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2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

I was swithering whether to hang our washing out or not, it was quite pleasant here this morning at 9.30, and decided to stick it in the drier, so couldn't give a monkeys whether it's Trump's fault for the rain or not.

Very selfish granda, I'm hoping my washing will be dry for the weekend.

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The Iraq war was disaster on every level, and predicted by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the area. They were totally played by Iran who fed the dodgy "intelligence" through Chalabi and ended up in de facto control. $2.4 trillion to hand over power and influence to your biggest regional foe (too thick to realise it's actually Saudi Arabia). That doesn't strike me as "insanely clever".
It's not a disaster in their mindset though, it's worked out exactly as they intended.

They knew the intelligence was dodgy, they were pretty much making it up as they went on and taking the piss out of it. Saudi have oil, huge influence over the middle east and a geostrategic location - that's it. A few dozen terrorists being financed by the 16th cousin of the ruler doesn't really matter for them.

60% of the world's oil reserves in one place - the vast majority of the region unexplored. That oil breeds power projection and arms whoever is in possession of it. Look at where the profits were funneling their way before, a nationalised company feeding funds to the treasury. Unless they can get the state onside diplomatically, it's just never going to be in American's interests to continue that.

It's unethical and takes no consideration of civilian life but it doesn't really matter in that sort of mindset, it's always justified by being the true good guys and the collateral damage being worth it in comparison to all the unquantifiable savings you'd make.

It's not really a question of intelligence at all, it's the whole mindset big powers have and it can't be turned off. Bush basically did a deal with that and got to be president by playing up to that lobby.
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27 minutes ago, harry94 said:

A few dozen terrorists being financed by the 16th cousin of the ruler doesn't really matter for them.

A bit more than that, funding Wahhabi/Salafist madrassas and mosques around the world, staffed by jihadi clerics. 

Edited by welshbairn
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22 hours ago, welshbairn said:

If Trump had any support for it he would have invaded Venezuela, he was actively pitching the idea to neighbouring countries. All that oil. Seems he thought it would be as easy as Panama and Grenada, like that Woody Allen film Bananas.

Venezuela is probably a red line for the Russians. One wrong move there and they'd have released  photos of the president peeing on some lassie or other.  That would somewhat damage the reputation of the office of President. 

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