Why do some people hate the SNP?

[Peppino Impastato]

I don't read the Forfar trolls posts but since you quoted him I can see it,  I turned Forfar down btw,  think I actually laughed down the phone,  anyway he's likecall unionists who only want one vote Scotland has had respected.   Since then we've had another two, for those to be respected we have to have another referendum.  

And there's nothing he can do about it.  That's democracy chump.

[AntonyP]

15 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

Humour me for a moment, Bishmeister.

Your earlier quote stated that "The Spinelli federalists, like Verhofstadt, just want Scotland to be incorporated into a European unitary state. That's the post-nationalist future that they want for us. In effect, Scotland would just a region ruled by the post-democratic elite."

Obviously, for you to suggest this, you must believe that it is possible for an independent Scotland to be a member of this incorporated European unitary state. Otherwise, what is the point of your earlier post?

My point is simple. If an independent Scotland is a member of the EU, and we as a nation disagree about the direction the EU is taking, then why can't we have a referendum to leave (just like the UK have done)

Please adress my actual point rather than quoting letters written by EU officials before the Brexit vote.

I have to say that I was confused by your initial posts, but this clarification  makes your point clear.

A referendum for Scotland to leave the EU is not really something that anyone should be worrying about. If Scotland didn't want to be in the EU it simply would not apply to join after it becomes Independent of the UK. No one in their right mind would go through all of the years of red tape required to join the EU only to then decide to leave.

Your scenario jumped the gun a bit and I can see why Bishop Briggs replied in the way he did. 

[hehawhehaw]

50 minutes ago, Antlion said:

You lost the election this year to a party with a pledge to reopen the Independence question in the circumstances that now prevail. Get over it.

and yet wee burney still won't call one.

[AntonyP]

4 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

If you support Scottish independence you support scotlands democratic decisions being respected.   Scotland just voted OVERWHELMINGLY to state in the EU, by a country fukin mile.  No brainer what outcome a supporter of Scottish independence wants to see now then. 

But in this case there was no democratic decision within Scotland, no such democratic decision would even be possible as this would require Scotland to have a membership of it's own, which it doesn't.. Voters weren't voting for Scotland to remain in the EU, they were voting for the UK to either remain in or to leave the EU just like every other person that voted.

Just like every other Election/Referendum, there are going to people who vote for the losing side, people who don't get what they wanted. The adult way to react is to accept that and move on.

The irony is a supporter of Scottish Independence is also a supporter of Scotland being out of the EU, because Independence would remove Scotland from both the UK AND the EU (if the UK had not already left).

[AntonyP]

20 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Indeed.  I hate Brexit with a passion.  The 4 free movements have transformed Europe and it's to our shame we, thus far, have eschewed them. My first position is one united kingdom as a member of The EU.  My fall back is Scotland as a continuing member of The EU.  I've said this a few times before.

Free movement has transformed Europe, and not for the better. It is and has always been a bad idea. All it does is allow the people from the poor Countries to move to the richer ones, which then makes those rich states poorer because they have the burden of paying for all of the extra people. It burdens the richer Countries and harms the poorer ones, because the poorer ones lose the people that are needed to make their economies grow.

I voted remain for many reason, but free movement was not one of them. If I got my way it would be scrapped immediately.

Your fall back can't happen BTW. It is not possible for Scotland to continue to be a member of the EU, because it is not a member currently. 

[Alan Stubbs]

1 minute ago, AntonyP said:

Free movement has transformed Europe, and not for the better. It is and has always been a bad idea. All it does is allow the people from the poor Countries to move to the richer ones, which then makes those rich states poorer because they have the burden of paying for all of the extra people. It burdens the richer Countries and harms the poorer ones, because the poorer ones lose the people that are needed to make their economies grow.

I voted remain for many reason, but free movement was not one of them. If I got my way it would be scrapped immediately.

Your fall back can't happen BTW. It is not possible for Scotland to continue to be a member of the EU, because it is not a member currently. 

Incorrect.

[AntonyP]

19 hours ago, Pearbuyerbell said:

.....and I'm very comfortable that Scotland could use any currency it wanted.   The EU would bend over backwards to rich, net contributor Scotland.   It's a union of appeasement provided you want to be in the club.   I'm perfectly happy they wouldn't view the 14.5 billion ( GERS )  deficit as a stumbling block, which no-doubt would be your next hurdle to make things difficult for Scotland.  

They wouldn't bend over backwards for a rich, net contributor Scotland, and certainly won't for the real Scotland that would be wanting to join; a poor, net recipient Scotland.

The "appeasement club" didn't treat the recent entrants and wishful entrants the way you mention, so why would they to it to Scotland?

[Peppino Impastato]

Anthony a new entry at number 12 on block. 

[hehawhehaw]

Just now, Peppino Impastato said:

Anthony a new entry at number 12 on block. 

luvit

 

[The_Kincardine]

47 minutes ago, AntonyP said:

Free movement has transformed Europe, and not for the better. It is and has always been a bad idea. All it does is allow the people from the poor Countries to move to the richer ones, which then makes those rich states poorer because they have the burden of paying for all of the extra people. It burdens the richer Countries and harms the poorer ones, because the poorer ones lose the people that are needed to make their economies grow.

There are loads of well-educated workers from wealthy countries working in the UK and contributing to the economy.  There are, too, plenty of people from poorer countries who work hard, pay their tax and aren't a burden.

The picture you paint is a caricature and not a pleasant one and I can sense you wondering where you left your pitch fork.  

[AntonyP]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

There are loads of well-educated workers from wealthy countries working in the UK and contributing to the economy.  There are, too, plenty of people from poorer countries who work hard, pay their tax and aren't a burden.

The picture you paint is a caricature and not a pleasant one and I can sense you wondering where you left your pitch fork.  

The so-called well educated skilled workers are always wheeled out for this discussion. The number of skilled workers coming to Europe will be massively outweighed by the number of people who are unskilled. It is the unskilled masses that are the ones creating the problems.

Even the hard working, tax paying people are an issue if they send money out of the Country they live in, they are a net drain on their host economy if they send the majority of their money out of the Country rather than it being spent within the economy it was earned.

You don't solve the unemployment and low pay problems within the poorer countries by having their working age people leave for other countries.

Oh and please, don't attempt to paint me in any way racist, my objection is based purely on economics.

[hehawhehaw]

6 minutes ago, AntonyP said:

The so-called well educated skilled workers are always wheeled out for this discussion. The number of skilled workers coming to Europe will be massively outweighed by the number of people who are unskilled. It is the unskilled masses that are the ones creating the problems.

Even the hard working, tax paying people are an issue if they send money out of the Country they live in, they are a net drain on their host economy if they send the majority of their money out of the Country rather than it being spent within the economy it was earned.

You don't solve the unemployment and low pay problems within the poorer countries by having their working age people leave for other countries.

Oh and please, don't attempt to paint me in any way racist, my objection is based purely on economics.

A very good point on the remittances. 

[DublinMagyar]

A very good point on the remittances. 

No. It's a shit point because neither of you are capable of thinking it through or even recognising the glaringly obvious contradictions from the earlier post.

[hehawhehaw]

7 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

No. It's a shit point because neither of you are capable of thinking it through or even recognising the glaringly obvious contradictions from the earlier post.

What are the glaringly contradictions?

 

[DublinMagyar]

Free movement has transformed Europe, and not for the better. It is and has always been a bad idea. All it does is allow the people from the poor Countries to move to the richer ones, which then makes those rich states poorer because they have the burden of paying for all of the extra people. It burdens the richer Countries and harms the poorer ones, because the poorer ones lose the people that are needed to make their economies grow.
I voted remain for many reason, but free movement was not one of them. If I got my way it would be scrapped immediately.
Your fall back can't happen BTW. It is not possible for Scotland to continue to be a member of the EU, because it is not a member currently. 

The so-called well educated skilled workers are always wheeled out for this discussion. The number of skilled workers coming to Europe will be massively outweighed by the number of people who are unskilled. It is the unskilled masses that are the ones creating the problems.
Even the hard working, tax paying people are an issue if they send money out of the Country they live in, they are a net drain on their host economy if they send the majority of their money out of the Country rather than it being spent within the economy it was earned.
You don't solve the unemployment and low pay problems within the poorer countries by having their working age people leave for other countries.
Oh and please, don't attempt to paint me in any way racist, my objection is based purely on economics.

What are the glaringly contradictions?
 

If you can't see them there's no hope for you.

[DublinMagyar]

A Shite argument so badly made it defeats itself. An own goal scored and you can't even see your team is losing.

[Loondave1]

I don't read the Forfar trolls posts but since you quoted him I can see it,  I turned Forfar down btw,  think I actually laughed down the phone,  anyway he's likecall unionists who only want one vote Scotland has had respected.   Since then we've had another two, for those to be respected we have to have another referendum.  
And there's nothing he can do about it.  That's democracy chump.

Take it there was a vacancy at McDonalds on the bypass.Indy2 is still a free beer tomorrow joke for the roasters itching for another SNP fail.You are saying you have to have a referendum because its slipping away everyone with a brain cell can see that.

[hehawhehaw]

2 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

 

 

If you can't see them there's no hope for you.

 

 

Please point them out individually.

[hehawhehaw]

2 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

A Shite argument so badly made it defeats itself. An own goal scored and you can't even see your team is losing.

are you bloottered? 

[DublinMagyar]

Please point them out individually.

I'll start you off as it's the season of goodwill. "Freedom of movement.........Europe..........workers COMING to Europe............." . There's more but your on yer own now.