Old Firm Colts in L2

[1320Lichtie]

I'm not going round in circles with you again, it's been pointed out why that is a ridiculous and unworkable suggestion and you appear to be the only guy in Scotland who is championing it.

There are plenty of other OF morons like him to be fair.

[SimonLichtie]

58 minutes ago, Ancient Warrior said:

The meeting was also told that nine of the League 2 clubs are against the proposal and the other unknown club was on the swither.

Very disappointing that your board have openly lied to the fans.

The Daily Record, a highly reliable source ,has already reported 7 out of 10 League 2 clubs were for these proposals. Very naive of you to believe your board of directors over highly reputable journalists......

This whole thing is just classic politics really. Certain papers big something up massively to try and make it seem like you're in the minority if you're not for it, morons decide their opinion without reading the proposal, looking at the facts etc. and it's left to those of us who aren't lying and/ or braindead to actually look at things in proper detail and be able to properly argue our case on how fucking stupid this thing is.

Someone earlier mentioned the twitter comments in reply to Craig's tweet about Stenny not being for the idea and it being full of Old Firm fans going on about us 'holding Scottish football back'. How many of these people do we think have actually read the proposal/ actually have any idea about the ins and outs of it? I predict zero. I also predict at least half of them don't even fully understand how the current loan and development loan system works. These people's opinions on this proposal are about as educated as my opinions on Greek mythology.

 

 

[SimonLichtie]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

FTFY

Genuine question - have you personally read the proposal fully, and do you fully understand the loan system we have in place?

If you were able to show a basic level of understanding of these two things, then maybe people could move forward a discussion with you regarding them.

How many development loans are allowed per season? How long are these loans able to be? How many are you allowed from one club at one time? How many total loans, development and others, can one club have in one season? What are the rules relating to extending development loans in comparison to extending regular loans?

If you don't know the answers to these simple questions, then why should anyone listen to your opinions regarding a system you don't even fully understand in it's current format?

[JakeSAFC]

Some people are really thick !!   For the third time I am saying that the Club have last week rejected this amended proposal - unanimously.  This was confirmed on the official website .  CC really has wooshed the idiot faction 

CC hasn't wooshed anyone m8. He came across as a total fud and got put in his place.

[wastecoatwilly]

10 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Genuine question - have you personally read the proposal fully, and do you fully understand the loan system we have in place?

If you were able to show a basic level of understanding of these two things, then maybe people could move forward a discussion with you regarding them.

How many development loans are allowed per season? How long are these loans able to be? How many are you allowed from one club at one time? How many total loans, development and others, can one club have in one season? What are the rules relating to extending development loans in comparison to extending regular loans?

If you don't know the answers to these simple questions, then why should anyone listen to your opinions regarding a system you don't even fully understand in it's current format?

The pros and cons are all laid out on this thread plus the proposal on offer,negatives and positives on both sides of the debate plus a lot of witabootary.

[peternapper]

Rather than pandering to a few teams that have more players than they know what to do with should we not remember after many years of moaning about the SPFL being a closed shop we finally ended up with the pyramid system in place to give HFL/LL teams the chance to progress through the system, allowing some clubs to have extra teams in that system should surely be seen as a kick in the teeth to those clubs.

[SimonLichtie]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The pros and cons are all laid out on this thread plus the proposal on offer,negatives and positives on both sides of the debate plus a lot of witabootary.

..... You don't know the answers to my basic questions about a system you're happily commenting on without fully understanding how it works, do you?

Do you understand why it's hard for people to take your argument seriously when you lack this basic knowledge of what you're commenting on?

If I started trying to give my opinion on Greek mythology to an expert in that field, I'd expect them to laugh in my face due to my lack of basic knowledge of the subject. That is what is happening in this thread, when you give your opinions on something we know the ins and outs of, and you dont.

Have you actually even read the proposal ffs?

[Loonytoons]

..... You don't know the answers to my basic questions about a system you're happily commenting on without fully understanding how it works, do you?
Do you understand why it's hard for people to take your argument seriously when you lack this basic knowledge of what you're commenting on?
If I started trying to give my opinion on Greek mythology to an expert in that field, I'd expect them to laugh in my face due to my lack of basic knowledge of the subject. That is what is happening in this thread, when you give your opinions on something we know the ins and outs of, and you dont.
Have you actually even read the proposal ffs?

Project Icarus

[The Moonster]

33 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Genuine question - have you personally read the proposal fully, and do you fully understand the loan system we have in place?

 

17 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

No

FTFY.

[Burnsythebinman]

Time to dust off the table.

If any one knows better - update the hit list----------

League 1 & League 2 - and declared Championship clubs

Confirmed good guys 

• Stirling Albion
• Albion Rovers 
• Annan
• Stenhousemuir
• Cowdenbeath

Very likely good guys

• Dunfermline Athletic 
• Clyde
• Arbroath
• Queens Park
• Airdrieonians 

Most likely bad guys

• Berwick Rangers

On the fence/not declared

• Peterhead
• Morton
• Elgin
• Edinburgh
• Raith 
• Ayr
• Stranraer
• Alloa
• E Fife
• Forfar

[Dunning1874]

7 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The pros and cons are all laid out on this thread plus the proposal on offer,negatives and positives on both sides of the debate plus a lot of witabootary.

There has been a significant difference though. The negatives have come with evidence to back up the arguments, while no one expressing a positive has managed to produce a single piece of evidence to support their view even after repeated invitations to do so, and have directly ignored requests to address the evidence supporting the negatives.

For example, on attendance figures, those of us opposed to the proposal have produced the only figures available for Colt Teams in competitive games and used them to demonstrate that there is no reason to believe attendances will increase in League Two, while tying that into the point around the 15K bribe being useless due to the distinct likelihood of attendances falling. In response those who support the introduction of Colt Teams have utterly failed to address the evidence of previous Colt attendances, but have continued to repeat their claims that attendances would improve regardless of their failure to either address the existing evidence or produce their own to the contrary.

If you treat the discussion with so much contempt through not constructing a proper argument, be that through ignorance about the issues being discussed (in the case of most Rangers and Celtic fans) or just not bothering your arse because you think everyone should be fawning over you for lowering yourself to giving them the time of day in the first place (in the case of Celtic and Rangers as clubs through McCart and Mulholland) you'll be treated with contempt in return.

[wastecoatwilly]

20 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

..... You don't know the answers to my basic questions about a system you're happily commenting on without fully understanding how it works, do you?

Do you understand why it's hard for people to take your argument seriously when you lack this basic knowledge of what you're commenting on?

If I started trying to give my opinion on Greek mythology to an expert in that field, I'd expect them to laugh in my face due to my lack of basic knowledge of the subject. That is what is happening in this thread, when you give your opinions on something we know the ins and outs of, and you dont.

Have you actually even read the proposal ffs?

It's not fecking rocket science here,the fact that this proposal has got this far means the chairmen are thinking about it,it was accepted in june by the working group now getting all the feedback from the clubs and fans on how this moves forward for me its going to happen,first the pilot scheme then they will go on from there.for me this proposal would have been thrown out long ago it must have some legs on it?

[Blootoon87]

Project Icarus

Flew too close to the ***?

[Loonytoons]

Flew too close to the ***?

To coin an oft used phrase "get it into the fucking sea".

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

No they're not,

 

this would happen i'm against that.

What's the difference between calling them a Colt team and calling them a B team given we have no examples of either in the professional league structure (L2-SP) and how they might interact with professional clubs? 

There is no information on what difference would look like but more importantly there is zero evidence that fan appetite for them is different which you implied in an earlier post. 

[SimonLichtie]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

It's not fecking rocket science here,the fact that this proposal has got this far means the chairmen are thinking about it,it was accepted in june by the working group now getting all the feedback from the clubs and fans on how this moves forward for me its going to happen,first the pilot scheme then they will go on from there.for me this proposal would have been thrown out long ago it must have some legs on it?

The irony of you saying it's not rocket science, but being unable to answer the absolute basics of the proposal and the current loan system, of which you've made plenty comments on both, is not lost on me.

Honestly, I'm embarrassed with myself for even trying to have a proper discussion about this with someone who doesn't know the basics.

Your lack of answers to any basic questions posed to you is, frankly, hilarious.

It's blindingly obvious that the majority of lower league clubs, the clubs this would affect are against it. You, sneering at the rest of us and our facts/ logic/ ability to answer basic questions, say 'it's going to happen'. Why would this proposal happen if the majority of the SPFL clubs are against it?

[SimonLichtie]

13 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

this proposal has got this far means the chairmen are thinking about it

Now I'm not holding out much hope here, but can you explain this part to me?

You don't even understand the process this has gone through, a process which I fully understand, and you're trying to educate me on it

[Big Fifer]

As far as our position goes on the good guy/w**k list, the response I got via email was:

"Should that happen, it would firstly be a discussion for our Directors before we could advise you on our position I’m afraid."

So not good guys yet I'm afraid.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Big Fifer

[Bazil85]

4 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

As far as our position goes on the good guy/w**k list, the response I got via email was:

"Should that happen, it would firstly be a discussion for our Directors before we could advise you on our position I’m afraid."

So not good guys yet I'm afraid.

I would be responding to people like that saying 'It seems strange that other clubs can clarify their position given how emotive this subject is to fans. can you please advise why East Fife are willing to keep their fan base in the dark over such a subject?'

In saying that, I haven't had a word back from St Mirren. 

[peternapper]

4 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

As far as our position goes on the good guy/w**k list, the response I got via email was:

"Should that happen, it would firstly be a discussion for our Directors before we could advise you on our position I’m afraid."

So not god guys yet I'm afraid.

It still seems unclear  when & how this will be resolved. Is it a proposal from Celtic/Rangers or the SPFL?  So far it would appear clubs have been approached unofficially some were sent a proposal others say they have not had anything official & as such cannot comment. If whoever is actually behind it comes out & makes it official if they have that power then clubs & supporters can speak about it a date can be set for a vote on it & it can be officially binned.