Forever_blueco Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 44 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...and the RoI wasn't exactly the land of milk and honey for Protestants from that sort of standpoint, so it wasn't only an NI thing either. irishmen who who joined the British army to fight in world war 1 aswell . Was their not cases of them being shunned upon return home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Some outstanding whataboutery going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 47 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: Expert analysis on the subject from Forever Blueco as usual. 42 minutes ago, mjw said: Ftfy Groundbreaking input from bill and Ben here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, The OP said: Some outstanding whataboutery going on here. Ah the old whataboutery shout . Always great for when facts get in the way of your actual agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Ah the old whataboutery shout . Always great for when facts get in the way of your actual agenda The thread has nothing to do with the treatment of Protestants in the Republic of Ireland. I'd have to surmise that you and others are just bringing it in because the name of the good Protestant people is being besmirched and the besmirchments are factually accurate. Either that, I suppose, or the implication is that the Catholics brought prejudicial treatment upon themselves by being the same faith as other people who were acting prejudicially in another place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: irishmen who who joined the British army to fight in world war 1 aswell . Was their not cases of them being shunned upon return home It was after WWII with the infamous "starvation orders". After WWI returning soldiers often got shot, which was even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, The OP said: The thread has nothing to do with the treatment of Protestants in the Republic of Ireland. I'd have to surmise that you and others are just bringing it in because the name of the good Protestant people is being besmirched and the besmirchments are factually accurate. Who made you thread monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Bruce Robertson Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Quite mental whataboutery, fwiw, I do feel that concessions to the opposite viewpoint is the only way to peace, unless you grind your foe underfoot. In this respect, both Martin & Ian should be rightfully afforded a modicum of praise, even if they were both c***s of the highest order before. Also, not really getting the hatred for the darling of the BDO? What's that all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, Jacksgranda said: Who made you thread monitor? I appointed myself because I consider the thread needs one. "What were these civil rights that were being denied? I don't remember any" *People name civil rights being denied* "Aye but what about these allegations about what the papes possibly did in another country?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Who was behind the killings of unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday, waterboarding, the five techniques, collusion, the death of Pat Finucane, the FRU, the MRF? Innocent people suffered and died in prisons for attacks and killings in which they had no role; they were tortured for information that they did not hold. It is almost like this is requiring a more careful and nuanced contextual understanding than 'but the Catholics had rights, you know!'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, The OP said: I appointed myself because I consider the thread needs one. "What were these civil rights that were being denied? I don't remember any" *People name civil rights being denied* "Aye but what about these allegations about what the papes possibly did in another country?" It's hardly a massive leap of logic to bring Republic of Ireland into a discussion about Northern Ireland m9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, The OP said: The thread has nothing to do with the treatment of Protestants in the Republic of Ireland... The now deid duffle coat wearer's mother was from Buncrana and he was very much believer in a 32 county state, so the way that both of the island's statelets had less than stellar records where the treatment of their minorities were concerned is relevant when somebody starts claiming that there was only a problem in NI. Nationalism (and Ulster Unionism is a form of it as well) is a messed up ideology that tends to be bad news for whoever's face doesn't fit in them and us terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, The OP said: I appointed myself because I consider the thread needs one. "What were these civil rights that were being denied? I don't remember any" *People name civil rights being denied* "Aye but what about these allegations about what the papes possibly did in another country?" Nobody said that. I said that in 1973 nobody had any less rights than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Compulsary atheism is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Nobody said that. I said that in 1973 nobody had any less rights than anyone else. Have you ever heard of a paraphrase? What I have quoted above is a pretty straightforward paraphrase of what you have quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: The now deid duffle coat wearer's mother was from Buncrana and he was very much believer in a 32 county state, so the way that both of the island's statelets had less than stellar records where the treatment of their minorities were concerned is relevant when somebody starts claiming that there was only a problem in NI. Nationalism (and Ulster Unionism is a form of it as well) is a messed up ideology that tends to be bad news for whoever's face doesn't fit in them and us terms. Nationalism wasn't the principal cause; that of course was sectarianism. Stop trying to wildly deflect blame towards a global ideology, when the clear issue was the fact that TFS was by far the most bigoted society in western Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 What jobs were those then? The highly paid skilled ones. Discrimination to keep the established order of things. Are you denying that Catholics were discriminated in the 60s and 70s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, The OP said: Have you ever heard of a paraphrase? What I have quoted above is a pretty straightforward paraphrase of what you have quoted. Used to sing them all the time. They seem to have been done away with lately. And what you quoted was not a pretty straightforward paraphrase of what I quoted. I don't think anybody has said that prior to 1969 there was not widespread discrimination against Roman Catholics in terms of jobs and houses. However, that had all been dealt with by 1973, which was my starting point as allegedly the violence was still ongoing because of lack "civil rights", which was bollocks. The violence was ongoing because of a desire for a united Ireland by fair means or foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, pandarilla said: The highly paid skilled ones. Discrimination to keep the established order of things. Are you denying that Catholics were discriminated in the 60s and 70s? Which highly paid skilled ones? Architects? Civil Engineers? Accountants? Solicitors? Teachers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, Granny Danger said: Compulsary atheism is the answer. What the island of Ireland needed as it moved into the 20th century was a good dose of anti-clericalism and somebody like this: Instead it got people like Eamon de Valera, which was definitely not good news if you wound up in the orphanage in Tuam, but oh aye the only problem was with the questionable employment practices of the big bad Prods in the shipyards and Linfield not signing Roman Catholics. Some people cannae see the wood for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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