renton Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Loondave1 said: "This is just my opinion" is a bit like "i believe" "i heard" "i was told" bollocks The Donald uses to row back on whatever utter bullshit he has come out with.Interesting that. It was just his opinion: Not universally held and unenforced on any document. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 It was just his opinion: Not universally held and unenforced on any document. Lucky that then.No faith in his ability to win and quite correct in that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, Loondave1 said: Lucky that then.No faith in his ability to win and quite correct in that. Thing is, the British government could've insisted on some kind of statute limitation on the referendum act stopping a 2nd one being brought forward too early. They didn't, so I assume you accept that the Scottish government therefore have the right to bring forward a section 30 order any time they damn well wish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 That's just whataboutery. Fact remains that it wasn't a promise or a pledge. The reason he didn't make that promise or pledge is because he's not a time traveler and doesn't have a crystal ball. So couldn't say for sure if there was going to be an event like, say, getting sent out of the EU when Better Together said we'd be staying in. I know all of this is very inconvenient to the yoons who want to throw this "once in a generation" stuff about. But it's just how it is. If you want to be angry about another referendum and how broken promises have led to it, have a look at the Tories and Labour and moan at them for it. Im not angry about another referendum just bored.I think its a misjudgement of the mood outside the YES echo chamber that might end in another terminal defeat to be honest.UK Govt might even do you a favour by cooling the jets for a while before the roasters crash and burn Indy2s chance of success.Surely wait on BREXIT to fail and tap home the winner rather than a risky penalty shoot out now ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Loondave1 said: Im not angry about another referendum just bored.I think its a misjudgement of the mood outside the YES echo chamber that might end in another terminal defeat to be honest.UK Govt might even do you a favour by cooling the jets for a while before the roasters crash and burn Indy2s chance of success.Surely wait on BREXIT to fail and tap home the winner rather than a risky penalty shoot out now ? Like waiting to see the impact on the ground before deploying the parachute? Waiting for the inevitable fuckup to seriously damage Scotland is a bit of a scorched earth policy, no? Trying to head it off before any real damage is done is surely more sensible policy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Loondave1 said: Im not angry about another referendum just bored.I think its a misjudgement of the mood outside the YES echo chamber that might end in another terminal defeat to be honest.UK Govt might even do you a favour by cooling the jets for a while before the roasters crash and burn Indy2s chance of success.Surely wait on BREXIT to fail and tap home the winner rather than a risky penalty shoot out now ? I think after that Brexit vote, the only thing that matters isn't timing, but how the Yes campaign approach it. If they approach it the right way, they'll definitely win because they've been handed all sorts of ammunition. Hell, we even have the "more powers" stuff getting trotted out again. If they can't win this time then the likelyhood of them ever winning is slim. The timing is fine. Which I never thought I'd say as I was all for waiting longer. You talk about roasters ( without a hint of irony I bet ), but are completely blind to who it is that's actually come across as inept and ignorant in this whole thing. The only thing that stops Yes is being too passive again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 hours ago, ayrmad said: Aye, did they not basically vote to say the fitba act was a pile of shite without actually putting forward any sort of plans of their own for change. Yes. They don't even need to put in plan for change. A simple repeal bill would do. Of course they would then have to , you know, make points and take positions and all that shit. Being oppositional much easier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I think after that Brexit vote, the only thing that matters isn't timing, but how the Yes campaign approach it. If they approach it the right way, they'll definitely win because they've been handed all sorts of ammunition. Hell, we even have the "more powers" stuff getting trotted out again. If they can't win this time then the likelyhood of them ever winning is slim. The timing is fine. Which I never thought I'd say as I was all for waiting longer. You talk about roasters ( without a hint of irony I bet ), but are completely blind to who it is that's actually come across as inept and ignorant in this whole thing. The only thing that stops Yes is being too passive again. Yes too passive.I would go with the face paint "traitor" "quisling" type approach this time as it gains converts so effectively.The "last chance" scenario is odd if the case is becoming increasingly strong ? I really do not get the urgency as the leaving the EU issue is as good as done and there will be no last minute jumping overboard for anyone good or bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, Loondave1 said: Yes too passive.I would go with the face paint "traitor" "quisling" type approach this time as it gains converts so effectively. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't seen the dozens of times I've brought this up on here. Going toe to toe with every bit of lies that the No campaign says, rather than standing by and just trying to be reasonable. Tackling any misleading and repeated promises that have already been broken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Loondave1 said: Yes too passive.I would go with the face paint "traitor" "quisling" type approach this time as it gains converts so effectively.The "last chance" scenario is odd if the case is becoming increasingly strong ? I really do not get the urgency as the leaving the EU issue is as good as done and there will be no last minute jumping overboard for anyone good or bad. I think the point is to get out of the UK as quickly as possible to minimise the inevitable damage that leaving the EU with an absolute shambles of a deal or no deal at all, which is exactly what May is leading the UK towards, does to the Scottish economy. We're on a sinking ship and people are seriously suggesting we wait till we're at the bottom of the fucking sea to see if its alright there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 [emoji38] I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't seen the dozens of times I've brought this up on here. Going toe to toe with every bit of lies that the No campaign says, rather than standing by and just trying to be reasonable. Tackling any misleading and repeated promises that have already been broken. Fair enough although i wasn't suggesting it was your personal modus operandi on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 It was however the first thing you jumped to though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I think the point is to get out of the UK as quickly as possible to minimise the inevitable damage that leaving the EU with an absolute shambles of a deal or no deal at all, which is exactly what May is leading the UK towards, does to the Scottish economy. We're on a sinking ship and people are seriously suggesting we wait till we're at the bottom of the fucking sea to see if its alright there. Kinda get that theory but it still risks a massive failure to win rather than winning control of the brush to sweep up with post BREXIT easily at a later referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't seen the dozens of times I've brought this up on here. Going toe to toe with every bit of lies that the No campaign says, rather than standing by and just trying to be reasonable. Tackling any misleading and repeated promises that have already been broken. To push the metaphor a bit further, remaining in the UK until after Brexit will not just see us at the bottom of the sea, but irretrievably embedded metres-deep in the silt, with no prospect of being raised without crumbling to pieces in the attempt. The waterlogged weight of the UK will see to that. Edited March 30, 2017 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I love this Project Fear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, kirkyblue2 said: I love this Project Fear. Worked for the opponents of Scotland's sovereignty and statehood last time, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapelhall chap Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 18 hours ago, sparky88 said: For the SNP yes, no one has ever joined the SNP to lower the council tax. I think you are right that "constitutionalist" debate does attract more support but I don't know if seven years of a council tax freeze was in many ways a lowering of council tax? I can't think of many parties in Scotland or the UK who have actually lowered Council tax when in power? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 To push the metaphor a bit further, remaining in the UK until after Brexit will not just see us at the bottom of the sea, but irretrievably embedded metres-deep in the silt, with no prospect of being raised without crumbling to pieces in the attempt. The waterlogged weight of the UK will see to that. Yes i suspect the campaigns will be full of complete anchors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 A gentle reminder that this is a thread for serious debate and not mud slinging! It's been a good read thus far. Some decent points raised earlier on by no voters, which received equally good responses by yes men. I still remain unconvinced by the no camp at this stage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black and White Tragic Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Rather than pick over the bones in the last Yes campaign and have the usual "ye dinnae ken whit currency ye'll huv" etc. Let's go from a completely different angle.I want to know from the No side of the fence the top three reasons why staying with the UK is your favoured option. To be clear, I mean benefits and not because you've believe something nasty will happen with indy. So rather than Project Fear we can see your viewpoint with a positive spin. Convince us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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