Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

15 minutes ago, BTFD said:

Not sure we'll ever get to the bottom of who this Jedi2 lad is.

Fond memories of his "I jUsT wAnT a pRoPeR dEbATe" before doing the total opposite, losing it completely and getting binned

 

[Silvio Tattiescone]

On 05/04/2023 at 16:58, Stephen Malkmus said:

Can't believe they buried Falkirk's Scottish Cup semi-final hopes in their back garden

It would need to be a much bigger hole. We're absolutely massive. 

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:

It would need to be a much bigger hole. We're absolutely massive. 

Aye you're no wrong you fat b*****ds

I reserve the right to claim this attempt at a joke even though i know the rest of scotland is just as fucking bad

[vikingTON]

Sunday Mail today reveals that NS tried to shut down any discussion of party finances at a recorded meeting of party executives in August 2021, stating that 

Quote

We don't need to talk about the finances. The finances are absolutely fine. 

So which of the following versions of events is true?

1) Sturgeon knowingly misled the party about the Ted Crilly activities of her catastrophically bald husband.

2) Sturgeon was being misled by her catastrophically bald husband - which raises far greater questions about her judgment btw.  

3) Mr Murrell and Mrs Sturgeon never discussed anything about their day jobs to each other, despite being the two leading executive figures of the same party, and devoting the bulk of their professional careers to the political cause that party was created to bring about. That Chinese wall was kept secure throughout their joint tenure at the top. 

If you chose option 3), then please await a visit from the wallet inspector and a thank you note from our current First Minister for voting him into an already broken spell in office. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

2) Sturgeon was being misled by her catastrophically bald husband -  which raises far greater questions about her judgment btw.

You've clearly never been married.

Edited April 9, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

You've clearly never been married.

Were you married to a baldy clown whose blatant missteps were flagged by people resigning left, right and centre in protest? It's hardly the same as buying a new pair of shoes for a night out on the credit card or sneaking to the pub for a quiet one.

Anyone who was successfully kept in the dark by slaphead Murrell for any length of time must be pretty gullible themselves, to say the least. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

Were you married to a baldy clown whose blatant missteps were flagged by people resigning left, right and centre in protest? It's hardly the same as buying a new pair of shoes for a night out on the credit card or sneaking to the pub for a quiet one.

Anyone who was successfully kept in the dark by slaphead Murrell for any length of time must be pretty gullible themselves, to say the least. 

I was more making the point that I think it's unlikely she's been kept in the dark or has no knowledge of what's happened.

Edited April 9, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[vikingTON]

22 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I was more making the point that I think it's unlikely she's been kept in the dark or has no knowledge of what's happened.

I completely agree, but that implausible scenario needs to be accepted for Sturgeon to avoid being a central player in the Murrell scandal as well. The real reasons for the timetable of her departure are becoming ever more apparent. 

It also means, by extension, that Yousaf has a lot of explaining to do about why anyone should accept a leadership prospectus that he's now going to have to chuck overboard and pretend never happened. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

38 minutes ago, virginton said:

I completely agree, but that implausible scenario needs to be accepted for Sturgeon to avoid being a central player in the Murrell scandal as well. The real reasons for the timetable of her departure are becoming ever more apparent. 

It also means, by extension, that Yousaf has a lot of explaining to do about why anyone should accept a leadership prospectus that he's now going to have to chuck overboard and pretend never happened. 

It depends on the level of scandal and if there are any criminal charges.

If it's just about the ringfencing of donations I'm not convinced there will be criminal charges based around that alone that would stand up in court. It would also be easier to at least row back and acknowledge the actions were unethical.

If it's something worse - and we are talking misappropriation - then the damage to not just the SNP but the wider independence movement cannot be underestimated.  

Given that Mike Russell was saying independence is on the back burner you'd have to be worried that senior figures know a lot more than they are letting on.

I personally don't think Yousaf is going to last long anyway - given his history everything he does turns to shit.

We'll just need to wait and see.

But one lesson - there should never be this sort of relationship between a party leader and Chief Executive ever again - it's highly inappropriate.

[Thorongil]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It depends on the level of scandal and if there are any criminal charges.

If it's just about the ringfencing of donations I'm not convinced there will be criminal charges based around that alone that would stand up in court. It would also be easier to at least row back and acknowledge the actions were unethical.

If it's something worse - and we are talking misappropriation - then the damage to not just the SNP but the wider independence movement cannot be underestimated.  

Given that Mike Russell was saying independence is on the back burner you'd have to be worried that senior figures know a lot more than they are letting on.

I personally don't think Yousaf is going to last long anyway - given his history everything he does turns to shit.

We'll just need to wait and see.

But one lesson - there should never be this sort of relationship between a party leader and Chief Executive ever again - it's highly inappropriate.

A lot of people, including journalists know exactly what has been discovered. I have been given the impression it’s very bad and considerably worse than the £600k.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Sunday Mail today reveals that NS tried to shut down any discussion of party finances at a recorded meeting of party executives in August 2021, stating that 

Aye, It's pretty indefensible.

One of the best bits from that meeting is Graham Campbell insisting that he needs no reminding on governance or finances due to his extensive business experience. I literally laughed out loud. The utter fantasist. 

I really can't see how anyone who was on the NEC at the point when they rejected the Audit Committee's report can continue. Especially when half of the Audit Committee resigned. How the NEC just decided to continue as normal and then actually berate the Audit Committee I'll never know. That simply wouldn't happen in any other organisation. Dysfunctional doesn't even cover it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

5 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Aye, It's pretty indefensible.

One of the best bits from that meeting is Graham Campbell insisting that he needs no reminding on governance or finances due to his extensive business experience. I literally laughed out loud. The utter fantasist. 

I really can't see how anyone who was on the NEC at the point when they rejected the Audit Committee's report can continue. Especially when half of the Audit Committee resigned. How the NEC just decided to continue as normal and then actually berate the Audit Committee I'll never know. That simply wouldn't happen in any other organisation. Dysfunctional doesn't even cover it.

I left the SNP when they introduced vaccine passports - but even without that I had serious concerns about the control freakery in the SNP.

[Thorongil]

15 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Aye, It's pretty indefensible.

One of the best bits from that meeting is Graham Campbell insisting that he needs no reminding on governance or finances due to his extensive business experience. I literally laughed out loud. The utter fantasist. 

I really can't see how anyone who was on the NEC at the point when they rejected the Audit Committee's report can continue. Especially when half of the Audit Committee resigned. How the NEC just decided to continue as normal and then actually berate the Audit Committee I'll never know. That simply wouldn't happen in any other organisation. Dysfunctional doesn't even cover it.

It’s absolute proof of corruption. And those who said so were targeted by Sturgeon acolytes for ridicule, harassment and bullying to a remarkable degree. 

[Thorongil]

9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I left the SNP when they introduced vaccine passports - but even without that I had serious concerns about the control freakery in the SNP.

My alarm bells started ringing ahead of the general election in 2015 when I saw what candidates were asked to sign up to by the party. New rules were created demanding absolute party loyalty for anyone who wanted to be an MP. Candidates had to agree that they would never, ever publicly disagree with any form of party policy and never make any criticism of The Party. 

It was the New Labour playbook at work in the SNP for the first time. And then the selection process for candidates was like the New Labour star chambers for the first Scottish Parliament. 

The rot was and is Sturgeon and now her legacy is going to be very hard to shake.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

9 minutes ago, Thorongil said:

My alarm bells started ringing ahead of the general election in 2015 when I saw what candidates were asked to sign up to by the party. New rules were created demanding absolute party loyalty for anyone who wanted to be an MP. Candidates had to agree that they would never, ever publicly disagree with any form of party policy and never make any criticism of The Party. 

It was the New Labour playbook at work in the SNP for the first time. And then the selection process for candidates was like the New Labour star chambers for the first Scottish Parliament. 

The rot was and is Sturgeon and now her legacy is going to be very hard to shake.

I joined in 2019.

Hadn't been a member of a political party since 1994 when I left the Labour Party - the similarities in their  control freakery are not lost on me.

[Thorongil]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I joined in 2019.

Hadn't been a member of a political party since 1994 when I left the Labour Party - the similarities in their  control freakery are not lost on me.

Indeed. I joined the SNP in 2006. Under Salmond the party was nothing remotely like this.

[StellarHibee]

22 minutes ago, Thorongil said:

Indeed. I joined the SNP in 2006. Under Salmond the party was nothing remotely like this.

Protest Party > In Government > Establishment Party

That's the problem. A party will talk a good game to get into power, but once they're actually in power, their values begin to erode as it turns into a simple numbers game to try and maintain that power for as long as possible.

[Thorongil]

10 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

Protest Party > In Government > Establishment Party

That's the problem. A party will talk a good game to get into power, but once they're actually in power, their values begin to erode as it turns into a simple numbers game to try and maintain that power for as long as possible.

The values were fine and it was a democratic Party until 2014.

It’s Sturgeon’s fault. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

38 minutes ago, Thorongil said:

Indeed. I joined the SNP in 2006. Under Salmond the party was nothing remotely like this.

I have spoken to others who said the control freakery started under his watch and was cemented under Sturgeon. 

I get why there may have needed to be discipline within a political party, especially one that became the governing party, but there's that and there's the control freakery we're now seeing.

Edited April 9, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[StellarHibee]

1 minute ago, Thorongil said:

The values were fine and it was a democratic Party until 2014.

It’s Sturgeon’s fault. 

Politics is a numbers game. When a party has been in power for so long, they begin to rely more and more on metrics, not only to maintain power but to increase their popularity share. Nicola Sturgeon was trying to be too many things for too many people. She wanted to be on everybodies good side, which is simply impossible.