The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[Ric]

Just now, Div said:

No chance Curtis Main is going to turn us down to sign for St.Johnstone.

Don’t believe for a minute that they could offer any more then we could and also don’t think they need another striker, they’ve fucking loads as it is!

Total non-starter IMO.

I agree with you, my post was just laying out the reasons it would be crazy, rather than entertaining the notion.

[smellthepaw]

9 hours ago, Norrie82 said:

If Bacchus is sold let’s tell the fans what the deal is. Don’t go down the undisclosed fee route. He’s a talent and he’s played at a World Cup and will clearly improve further. Let’s not sell him for 300k that’s a joke. 

I'm sure you would find out at the end of year AGM. 

[smellthepaw]

2 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

All things being equal, we should be looking at 7 figures.

Going into last year though, I'd be disappointed if we accepted less than £750k and absolutely raging if he went for under £500k.

Anything less and you're well into 'not worth selling him now' territory and you'd be better off keeping him until January and seeing where we are...if we're out both cups and europe isnt a remote possibility then we'd be as well punting him then for about £200k.

Half a million now would at least give us a fair shake of a decent replacement. A couple hundred grand wouldn't.

What I WOULD like to see is a show of good faith from Baccus in the form of O'Hara that he signs a short extension with the understanding of a bid coming in above a certain amount meaning we wouldn't stand in his way.

Such things as this are unlikely though and I feel O'Hara is the exception rather than the rule.

 

Finally, much like Blackpool when they were sniffing about, I don't think Bolton or League 1 is a good move at all for Baccus. He's 25, a regular in the Australia squad now and is definitely at the level where he can play championship level football without any fuss. If he was 19 or 20 I'd be saying it's a logical next step but he's at a stage now that if he's going to move, it needs to be to a higher standard of football again.

Look at John McGinn to Villa with one year left on his contract.  Was it something like 2.75m+ add ons? I'm not saying we would get the same for Baccus, but you can't help but think we would be short changed if we accepted anything under 750k for a full international who featured at the World Cup and is a regular now in his national side?

[MenstrieSaint]

10 minutes ago, smellthepaw said:

Look at John McGinn to Villa with one year left on his contract.  Was it something like 2.75m+ add ons? I'm not saying we would get the same for Baccus, but you can't help but think we would be short changed if we accepted anything under 750k for a full international who featured at the World Cup and is a regular now in his national side?

I think many of the teams looking at Baccus think there's a profit to be made and will look to sell him on . Add ons will be hugely important in any deal to sell Baccus . 

[houston_bud]

47 minutes ago, smellthepaw said:

Look at John McGinn to Villa with one year left on his contract.  Was it something like 2.75m+ add ons? I'm not saying we would get the same for Baccus, but you can't help but think we would be short changed if we accepted anything under 750k for a full international who featured at the World Cup and is a regular now in his national side?

McGinn was slightly younger when he left, but I totally agree. Hibs have a bit more clout than us in these sort of negotiations but I think we can now say that Baccus is a regular international. As you say Baccus has played in a World Cup, and he did extremely well. The level that he's at now, to what McGinn was when he left Hibs can't be too far apart. McGinn was just off the back of a season in the Championship.

Kevin Nisbet's reported fee was '7 figures', he's older than Baccus and has a history of injuries. Baccus must be worth a couple of million, realistically a club like St Mirren isn't likely to get that. An offer to treble his wages and it's difficult to stand in the boy's way.

Edited June 23, 2023 by houston_bud

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Kevin Nisbet's reported fee was '7 figures', he's older than Baccus and has a history of injuries. Baccus must be worth a couple of million, realistically a club like St Mirren isn't likely to get that. An offer to treble his wages and it's difficult to stand in the boy's way.

I like Baccus but hes not got a real unique selling point. Theres plenty slightly worse players who offer the same/more in terms of tangible output you can get for under £1m. 

Hibs got millions for Nisbet because hes a proven goalscoring striker. Comparing him to Baccus in terms of what clubs want is mental. Goals win prizes so the cost is greater.

[smellthepaw]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I like Baccus but hes not got a real unique selling point. Theres plenty slightly worse players who offer the same/more in terms of tangible output you can get for under £1m. 

Hibs got millions for Nisbet because hes a proven goalscoring striker. Comparing him to Baccus in terms of what clubs want is mental. Goals win prizes so the cost is greater.

There have been plenty of midfielders who have sold for significant values though? It's not always about goals.

[medals]

Looks like our potential goldmine share of John McGinn is on hold again. He's just signed a 4 year extension at Villa

Edited June 23, 2023 by medals

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, smellthepaw said:

There have been plenty of midfielders who have sold for significant values though? It's not always about goals.

Its not always about goals, but the ones who sell for big money (David Turnbull an example) have that selling point.

Scott Brown is the last big (£1.5m+) sale i can remember which didnt involve a CM scoring lots.

[Wanderlust]

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

There's no way we could afford anything like a million TBH and we're no longer in the business of spending money we ain't got so if that's what's demanded, we'll walk.

What we do offer that has recently brought players to the club is ambition, good facilities and ground, an attractive playing style, large fanbase and excellent away following, good management etc - all good for the players who seem to love playing for us but all that is for the player and won't cut any ice with the Buds.

I don't believe we're tyre-kickers though. I reckon we'll try to offer a fair deal and if that means sell-on fees or performance-related payments so be it but the cash will be what we can afford and if it ain't enough we'll shake hands and walk away.

Whatever happens, all the best for next season.

[smellthepaw]

7 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

There's no way we could afford anything like a million TBH and we're no longer in the business of spending money we ain't got so if that's what's demanded, we'll walk.

What we do offer that has recently brought players to the club is ambition, good facilities and ground, an attractive playing style, large fanbase and excellent away following, good management etc - all good for the players who seem to love playing for us but all that is for the player and won't cut any ice with the Buds.

I don't believe we're tyre-kickers though. I reckon we'll try to offer a fair deal and if that means sell-on fees or performance-related payments so be it but the cash will be what we can afford and if it ain't enough we'll shake hands and walk away.

Whatever happens, all the best for next season.

If there was a significant sell on clause for us, you may get him closer to your predicted budget.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

42 minutes ago, medals said:

Looks like our potential goldmine share of John McGinn is on hold again. He's just signed a 4 year extension at Villa

That’s not necessarily a bad thing. Means if someone is determined to get him he’ll be worth a lot more. A good Euros next year and Bob’s yer uncle

Edited June 23, 2023 by TPAFKA Jersey 2

[houston_bud]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I like Baccus but hes not got a real unique selling point. Theres plenty slightly worse players who offer the same/more in terms of tangible output you can get for under £1m. 

Hibs got millions for Nisbet because hes a proven goalscoring striker. Comparing him to Baccus in terms of what clubs want is mental. Goals win prizes so the cost is greater.

I'll ignore the hyperbole, but your general point is a fair one. Part of the reason is that Hibs are a bigger club than us too. They pay more than us and a few hundred grand isn't as big a deal to them, so they have more ability to knock back these offers. 

 

 

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, houston_bud said:

McGinn was slightly younger when he left, but I totally agree. Hibs have a bit more clout than us in these sort of negotiations but I think we can now say that Baccus is a regular international. As you say Baccus has played in a World Cup, and he did extremely well. The level that he's at now, to what McGinn was when he left Hibs can't be too far apart. McGinn was just off the back of a season in the Championship.

Kevin Nisbet's reported fee was '7 figures', he's older than Baccus and has a history of injuries. Baccus must be worth a couple of million, realistically a club like St Mirren isn't likely to get that. An offer to treble his wages and it's difficult to stand in the boy's way.

The start point for any transfer is the players weekly wage x the remainder of his contract. 

Clubs will then argue the case regarding potential worth etc to come up with the total value.

A seven figure sum for Baccus seems fanciful but you should definitely be able to rip the arse out of it when it comes to future add ons.

[NorthBank]

11 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

There's no way we could afford anything like a million TBH and we're no longer in the business of spending money we ain't got so if that's what's demanded, we'll walk.

What we do offer that has recently brought players to the club is ambition, good facilities and ground, an attractive playing style, large fanbase and excellent away following, good management etc - all good for the players who seem to love playing for us but all that is for the player and won't cut any ice with the Buds.

I don't believe we're tyre-kickers though. I reckon we'll try to offer a fair deal and if that means sell-on fees or performance-related payments so be it but the cash will be what we can afford and if it ain't enough we'll shake hands and walk away.

Whatever happens, all the best for next season.

We recently sold Ethan Erhahon to Lincoln City (who you play first game of the season) for allegedly £350k plus add-ons. I am not making a direct comparison here however Baccus is now a first pick for the Aussie national team and at only 25 is at his peak and has several good years in front of him. Unfortunately we have a habit of selling good talent for peanuts so maybe you'll get him in a cut price deal. I'd be gutted though at such a low price but I am now used to it. Best of luck in the season ahead but hopefully for us, without Baccus.

And I am probably being jealous here but the money being spent on players in England is crazy, however they seem to want players playing in Scotland for next to nothing. We had Thiery Small on loan from Southampton for a few months last season and at 18 you can see the guy has talent but he was sent off twice in his short time with us and made mistakes all over the place yet Southampton allegedly paid £3m for him. Yet we'll accept maybe £400k for a full internationalist in his prime. Frustrating.

[houston_bud]

16 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

The start point for any transfer is the players weekly wage x the remainder of his contract. 

Clubs will then argue the case regarding potential worth etc to come up with the total value.

A seven figure sum for Baccus seems fanciful but you should definitely be able to rip the arse out of it when it comes to future add ons.

Totally agree. We'll get no where near that. I just think basing it on ability and what he's done in the past year he'll be worth more to any club than what we'll get for him.

[Ric]

22 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Totally agree. We'll get no where near that. I just think basing it on ability and what he's done in the past year he'll be worth more to any club than what we'll get for him.

  

33 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

A seven figure sum for Baccus seems fanciful but you should definitely be able to rip the arse out of it when it comes to future add ons.

I agree that, if sold, we'd do our best to insert as many add-on's as possible.

I feel the whole "seven figures" thing is a bit nebulous. Is, just for argument's sake, £1.1m an unfair price for the lad? Looking around at similar players going for much more, I don't think that it is. It is the fabled seven figures, though. I think the range we should be looking at is the £750k - £1.25m. That's not to say we would get that, but it's a seller's market and we have absolutely no need to sell the player on. Obviously he could down tools, but he doesn't come across as someone that would, and he's spoken well of the club and his time here. In general, I don't think "seven figures" is in any way fanciful.

[Ric]

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

What we do offer that has recently brought players to the club is ambition, good facilities and ground, an attractive playing style, large fanbase and excellent away following, good management etc - all good for the players who seem to love playing for us but all that is for the player and won't cut any ice with the Buds.

Honestly, the vast majority of players go down to England for two main reasons. A larger wage packet and in turn the higher profile of the English Leagues. The latter isn't really in Bolton's remit, money is pumped into the lower leagues at a ridiculous rate (albeit less now than before). The former is really the selling point. You can talk about community spirit, or facilities, but ultimately wages and the expansive nature of the leagues (in comparison to Scotland) are the two determining factors. At least by broad brush terms, there will be the odd player that gives it the "I've always wanted to play at Bolton since my dad showed me videos of Nat Lofthouse", but players these days aren't quite as sentimental.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ric

[DukDukGoose]

22 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Totally agree. We'll get no where near that. I just think basing it on ability and what he's done in the past year he'll be worth more to any club than what we'll get for him.

He was a younger player at the time so not a great example, but we gave Scott McKenna something like 4 new contracts in the space of 2 years. A couple of them were just a wage rise with no extension in length either. Purely to maximise what we could get out of him. Baccus probably won't accept that, but definitely something they should look to do with the younger players IMO.

We've ended up playing a blinder with the type of add ons we managed to include in the transfer deal too. 

[btb]

28 minutes ago, Ric said:

  I agree that, if sold, we'd do our best to insert as many add-on's as possible.

I feel the whole "seven figures" thing is a bit nebulous. Is, just for argument's sake, £1.1m an unfair price for the lad? Looking around at similar players going for much more, I don't think that it is. It is the fabled seven figures, though. I think the range we should be looking at is the £750k - £1.25m. That's not to say we would get that, but it's a seller's market and we have absolutely no need to sell the player on. Obviously he could down tools, but he doesn't come across as someone that would, and he's spoken well of the club and his time here. In general, I don't think "seven figures" is in any way fanciful.

That's where I disagree, it's not a  sellers market and it's certainly not a market that favours clubs of our size. Players (driven by their agents) want to maximize their income and that means moving on to a bigger club and a better deal - the money the selling club receives is bottom of the list of priorities.

Baccus downing tools is probably less of an issue to the club than getting a reputation of being difficult to deal with. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by btb