The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[Stu]

Ah yes, that famous Sunderland philosophy.

[pozbaird]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

Ah yes, that famous Sunderland philosophy.

Silly Mackems. Fcuk um’. Philosophy. Fcuk sake, I thought it was West Ham & Spurs that wanked themselves to sleep with their ‘philosophy’.

[Desp]

I certainly can't see Robinson to Sunderland.  It doesn't fit, at all.  

With Robinson, it can take a wee while to get his team playing the way he wants it. You can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it felt like it took three or four months to get St.Mirren going in the first season, much like it did at Motherwell.  However, when he gets it right, it's brilliant.  The Motherwell 2017/18 team that battered f**k out of teams, leaving Moult to ping in beauties from all angles, was one of my favourite teams to watch.  You can see him doing it similarly at St. Mirren.  They can mix it, but there's still plenty of players that can play.

Robbo might have learned a lesson at Motherwell that it can go wrong quickly if you stay that season too long so it'll be interesting to see if he can keep it going at St.Mirren or whether he'll jump at the first offer (fair play to him if he gets a gig at Championship-level wages).

Also, while I'm on here.  If you get the chance, and have the means to, get going on that European trip.  I've been lucky to have been to a few Motherwell away games in Europe.  There's genuinely nothing like it.  Enjoy every second of it.  Don't do what I did last time out either, and hold off until the next round because "it's only an Irish team we're playing.  We'll get through that nae bother"...

Edited June 3 by Desp

[Shuggie_Murray7]

19 minutes ago, Desp said:

I certainly can't see Robinson to Sunderland.  It doesn't fit, at all.  

With Robinson, it can take a wee while to get his team playing the way he wants it. You can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it felt like it took three or four months to get St.Mirren going in the first season, much like it did at Motherwell.  However, when he gets it right, it's brilliant.  The Motherwell 2017/18 team that battered f**k out of teams, leaving Moult to ping in beauties from all angles, was one of my favourite teams to watch.  You can see him doing it similarly at St. Mirren.  They can mix it, but there's still plenty of players that can play.

Robbo might have learned a lesson at Motherwell that it can go wrong quickly if you stay that season too long so it'll be interesting to see if he can keep it going at St.Mirren or whether he'll jump at the first offer (fair play to him if he gets a gig at Championship-level wages).

Also, while I'm on here.  If you get the chance, and have the means to, get going on that European trip.  I've been lucky to have been to a few Motherwell away games in Europe.  There's genuinely nothing like it.  Enjoy every second of it.  Don't do what I did last time out either, and hold off until the next round because "it's only an Irish team we're playing.  We'll get through that nae bother"...

He certainly didn't hit the ground running - to the point that a vocal minority wanted him out after a matter of weeks.

It took us until the start of the following season, about 5/6 months after he took the job, before things started to click.

At a club like Sunderland, I can't see him being given that 5/6 moth bedding in period

[Desp]

1 minute ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

He certainly didn't hit the ground running - to the point that a vocal minority wanted him out after a matter of weeks.

It took us until the start of the following season, about 5/6 months after he took the job, before things started to click.

At a club like Sunderland, I can't see him being given that 5/6 moth bedding in period

Completely agree.  He'd be gone before the Christmas night out if he went to Sunderland now.  I actually meant to say similar in the post above but got side-tracked by banging on about European games!

[Stu]

44 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Silly Mackems. Fcuk um’. Philosophy. Fcuk sake, I thought it was West Ham & Spurs that wanked themselves to sleep with their ‘philosophy’.

I will allow a handful massive clubs like Barcelona (although I hate the "More than a club" pish) to claim they have a philosophy or style of play. Anyone else is at it and needs to have a good look at themselves. Although would have been funny if Wimbledon fans in the 80s and 90s claimed their team had a philosophy. Of course, one of Sunderland's successful periods came when noted short-arse Niall Quinn played for them.

Anyone trying to make out their club is more special than another is also for the watching. St Mirren are special to me - the same way Motherwell are special to their fans and so on - but I don't try to claim to anyone it's more special than their club.

36 minutes ago, Desp said:

I certainly can't see Robinson to Sunderland.  It doesn't fit, at all.  

With Robinson, it can take a wee while to get his team playing the way he wants it. You can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it felt like it took three or four months to get St.Mirren going in the first season, much like it did at Motherwell.  However, when he gets it right, it's brilliant.  The Motherwell 2017/18 team that battered f**k out of teams, leaving Moult to ping in beauties from all angles, was one of my favourite teams to watch.  You can see him doing it similarly at St. Mirren.  They can mix it, but there's still plenty of players that can play.

Robbo might have learned a lesson at Motherwell that it can go wrong quickly if you stay that season too long so it'll be interesting to see if he can keep it going at St.Mirren or whether he'll jump at the first offer (fair play to him if he gets a gig at Championship-level wages).

Also, while I'm on here.  If you get the chance, and have the means to, get going on that European trip.  I've been lucky to have been to a few Motherwell away games in Europe.  There's genuinely nothing like it.  Enjoy every second of it.  Don't do what I did last time out either, and hold off until the next round because "it's only an Irish team we're playing.  We'll get through that nae bother"...

From when he replaced Goodwin to the end of that season was a bit of a disaster and led to us being dragged into the fringes of a relegation battle we should have been nowhere near so there was understandable concern. The team had been doing well in the months before Goodwin left (although not the last few months of 2021) so it was a bit worrying things had gone so wrong under Robinson.

Ultimately it seems he is pretty wedded to his style (or maybe philosophy...) and perhaps needs his own players a bit more than other managers.

[Arch Stanton]

51 minutes ago, Desp said:

Don't do what I did last time out either, and hold off until the next round because "it's only an Irish team we're playing.  We'll get through that nae bother"...

I seem to recall several Kilmarnock fans booking flights to Belgrade before they played the Nomads.

Edited June 3 by Arch Stanton

[Desp]

4 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

I seem to recall several Kilmarnock fans booking flights to Belgrade before they played the Nomads.

Aye, we were due to play either Sparta Prague or some Norwegian mob in the next round.  Quite a few of us booked flights* & hotel* to/in Prague in the knowledge that both teams would comfortably get through.

Both teams were knocked out!

*Both refundable, thankfully.

[smellthepaw]

50 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

He certainly didn't hit the ground running - to the point that a vocal minority wanted him out after a matter of weeks.

It took us until the start of the following season, about 5/6 months after he took the job, before things started to click.

At a club like Sunderland, I can't see him being given that 5/6 moth bedding in period

It's a completely different animal managing at that level of club too (as Jack Ross found out), from what he has been working with in his three managerial jobs on his CV.

You don't get long to figure out who is going to fit your system and who is not, then there is the demand for a higher quality singing and winning more regularly.

He's managed to work with his same tight nit team so far in his career with budget restraints, though at Sunderland you could find yourself working under people making decisions for you.

 

[smellthepaw]

45 minutes ago, Stu said:

I will allow a handful massive clubs like Barcelona (although I hate the "More than a club" pish) to claim they have a philosophy or style of play. Anyone else is at it and needs to have a good look at themselves. Although would have been funny if Wimbledon fans in the 80s and 90s claimed their team had a philosophy. Of course, one of Sunderland's successful periods came when noted short-arse Niall Quinn played for them.

Anyone trying to make out their club is more special than another is also for the watching. St Mirren are special to me - the same way Motherwell are special to their fans and so on - but I don't try to claim to anyone it's more special than their club.

From when he replaced Goodwin to the end of that season was a bit of a disaster and led to us being dragged into the fringes of a relegation battle we should have been nowhere near so there was understandable concern. The team had been doing well in the months before Goodwin left (although not the last few months of 2021) so it was a bit worrying things had gone so wrong under Robinson.

Ultimately it seems he is pretty wedded to his style (or maybe philosophy...) and perhaps needs his own players a bit more than other managers.

I genuinely think that Goodwin wasn't far away from another clusterfuck run of results. We went on a really good run before he left, though before that run, it wasnt so good. It was heading for that time of the season when we were due a bad turn.

In saying that, adding in a new manager with a different mentality and type of character at a crucial part in the season also had an impact. We were talking of top 6, then a couple of weeks later Robinsons talking about a relegation battle.

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

Aye, we were due to play either Sparta Prague or some Norwegian mob in the next round.  Quite a few of us booked flights* & hotel* to/in Prague in the knowledge that both teams would comfortably get through.

Both teams were knocked out!

*Both refundable, thankfully.

Me telling my work I was needing holidays but not sure what days for, to crawling back asking to cancel them all was some laugh.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, smellthepaw said:

I genuinely think that Goodwin wasn't far away from another clusterfuck run of results. We went on a really good run before he left, though before that run, it wasnt so good. It was heading for that time of the season when we were due a bad turn.

In saying that, adding in a new manager with a different mentality and type of character at a crucial part in the season also had an impact. We were talking of top 6, then a couple of weeks later Robinsons talking about a relegation battle.

Yeah, the run before the winter break was awful (aside from the thrown together team drawing against Celtic!). Things then dramatically improved after the winter break, partly because Conor Ronan seemed to be scoring a screamer in pretty much every game.

Goodwin got lucky with the timing of the Aberdeen job - had the form of the two months before the winter break been swapped with the form after it he'd possibly have been fighting to keep his job rather than land a gig elsewhere. All hypothetical nonsense of course!

[Ludo*1]

Was Robinson not a bit of a disaster down South? I know Morecambe fans don't like him and they idolise Derek Adams - strange bunch - so I can see how Sunderland fans wouldn't be a fan of him.

[smellthepaw]

15 minutes ago, Stu said:

Yeah, the run before the winter break was awful (aside from the thrown together team drawing against Celtic!). Things then dramatically improved after the winter break, partly because Conor Ronan seemed to be scoring a screamer in pretty much every game.

Goodwin got lucky with the timing of the Aberdeen job - had the form of the two months before the winter break been swapped with the form after it he'd possibly have been fighting to keep his job rather than land a gig elsewhere. All hypothetical nonsense of course!

Yes, his stock was very high at the time of the Aberdeen vacancy due to the run we were on. It was like the Jack Ross situation, off the back of a season high, the following season, every possibility we could have been relegation fodder under him. The move to Sunderland, regardless of his sacking, put his stock higher and the mix for bigger clubs up here and others around the same playing level as Sunderland at the time.

[SS77]

11 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Was Robinson not a bit of a disaster down South? I know Morecambe fans don't like him and they idolise Derek Adams - strange bunch - so I can see how Sunderland fans wouldn't be a fan of him.

Disaster is a bit extreme - they were outside the relegation places with the lowest budget in the league apparently. I think they just don’t like him due to the timing of his departure.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

I am seeing a fair few Sunderland fans giving it the "SR's style of play wouldn't fit the Sunderland philosophy".

I am sorry, I thought this was the same Sunderland who have spent much of the last decade pottering about in League One. My mistake.

The Sunderland philosophy. Fucking hell.

Edited June 3 by Shuggie_Murray7

[Stellaboz]

4 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

I am seeing a fair few Sunderland fans giving it the "SR's style of play wouldn't fit the Sunderland philosophy".

I am sorry, I thought this was the same Sunderland who have spent much of the last decade pottering about in League One. My mistake.

The Sunderland philosophy. Fucking hell.

Having watched STID I'm of the conclusion your average Sunderland fan has the same IQ as an elastic band. 

[houston_bud]

15 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Was Robinson not a bit of a disaster down South? I know Morecambe fans don't like him and they idolise Derek Adams - strange bunch - so I can see how Sunderland fans wouldn't be a fan of him.

I'm pretty sure the Morecambe fans were disappointed to lose him.

I can understand Sunderland fans being underwhelmed but given they've had Jack Ross, Lee Johnston, and Michael Beale in recent years, maybe Robinson is exactly the level that they're at. Would there be many fans in Scotland that would take any of those mentioned over Robinson?

I still don't think it will happen for what it's worth.

[pozbaird]

9 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

I am seeing a fair few Sunderland fans giving it the "SR's style of play wouldn't fit the Sunderland philosophy".

I am sorry, I thought this was the same Sunderland who have spent much of the last decade pottering about in League One. My mistake.

The Sunderland philosophy. Fucking hell.

The Sunderland philosophy is one of being relegated and employing the cunning tactic of letting a poor man’s Scott Brown in the shape of Lee Cattermole run around kicking people.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Was Robinson not a bit of a disaster down South? I know Morecambe fans don't like him and they idolise Derek Adams - strange bunch - so I can see how Sunderland fans wouldn't be a fan of him.

Not really but sort of. Neither of the jobs he took were clubs in positions to succeed.

I mean, his numbers don't look good but Oldham were a fucking basket case when he left us to take over there while Morecambe were playing at League 1 level for (I think) the first time in their history.

When he took over at Oldham he inherited a squad consisting of something like 3 (THREE) players and a chairman who was *difficult*.

Ultimately Morecambe fans don't like him because he arrived at their club with a grand sales pitch about long-term plans and how he was going to do this, that and the other while signing players and expanding their backroom staff by adding the likes of Martin Foyle only to f**k off after 6 months.

Which, (respectfully, to the club whose thread I'm currently posting on) seems fair enough.

He had Morecambe within touch of safety when he jumped ship. From what I could tell looking at their forum at the time they were reasonably content their dislike of him seems to stem from the way he left and him having encouraged their board to spend money on re-structuring the Football Department.

They were 4th bottom when Robinson fucked off and Adams returned to keep them up (having got them promoted to League 1 in the first place) so I don't really see that them looking favourably on Adams is *that* controversial.

Tbh, it feels like it's part of the problem Robinson has, for whatever reason there seems to be a stigma around him with regard his style of football that puts off clubs at the level he *thinks* he should be worth a shot at wanting to touch him. He's since admitted that he'd been applying for jobs such as Bournemouth when he was with us and was completely blanked (and that was a club he's well liked and had former teammates in senior roles).

At that point his stock was probably at its highest when he qualified for Europe with us and took the interview for the Northern Ireland role but whether he turned it down or he was overlooked his stock absolutely cratered the next season and he legitimately had us on course for relegation and I don't think it's wide of the mark to say his decision to resign was in large part an attempt to salvage his brand.

The fact he'd had his agent touting him for Hearts, Huddersfield, Luton, Bournemouth amongst many, many others while he was with us only for his next job to be...respectfully, Morecambe gives you an idea of how drastically his stock fell.

It feels like the only jobs he's actually realistically going to be in with a shout for down south are either going to be smaller clubs that are punching or absolute car crashes (which is a fair enough description of Sunderland I guess).

Edited June 3 by capt_oats