The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[Insaintee]

9 hours ago, Norrie82 said:

I think people are perhaps upset at the way Carson appears to have left us. Taking all that away I’d say he was the best GK out of the previous 3. I’m never really keen on loaning someone else’s goalie possibly after the David Cornell episode. I don’t know enough about Hemming tho and he could be a great signing.

I'm not upset.  There is nothing new or unique about what happened with Carson. In fact it seems to be not too dissimilar to how we got him from Dundee United. No way is he better than Alnwick or Hladky. Prior to signing for us, it looked like he was done.  He came in did the job and did it well enough that we did not miss either of our previous goal keepers. I don't think he's better but he did well enough to at least have a debate on the issue. 

On Hemming, concerns and Killie fans comments aside, he's done everything that's been asked of him and conceded  one competitive goal so far. He looks to have the confidence of his defenders and the manager. Think he'll do alright. 

 

 

[Ric]

I've given it 24 hours to see if I see this differently, but I don't, and I have to say I'm pretty taken back by the some of the responses to my comments, it's almost like people are being intentionally obtuse here. You cannot convince me that selling one of your better players last season to your opposition is anything but stupid. Yes, he had to go, we all accepted that, but we most definitely could have blocked the move.

Yes, it's good that the situation is resolved, yes, if we get any money that is a positive - I am not in any way denying that - but you cannot just ignore everything and say "well that's just the way it is" then complain when people raise the issue.

It's done now, I just really really fucking hope we get an experienced replacement.

 

 

[Drooper]

36 minutes ago, Ric said:

....but you cannot just ignore everything and say "well that's just the way it is" then complain when people raise the issue.

 

 

Yes, yes we can.  This is a football fans forum.  It is what we do.

[djchapsticks]

45 minutes ago, Ric said:

I've given it 24 hours to see if I see this differently, but I don't, and I have to say I'm pretty taken back by the some of the responses to my comments, it's almost like people are being intentionally obtuse here. You cannot convince me that selling one of your better players last season to your opposition is anything but stupid. Yes, he had to go, we all accepted that, but we most definitely could have blocked the move.

Yes, it's good that the situation is resolved, yes, if we get any money that is a positive - I am not in any way denying that - but you cannot just ignore everything and say "well that's just the way it is" then complain when people raise the issue.

It's done now, I just really really fucking hope we get an experienced replacement.

 

 

It boils down to three options.

Option A - The scenario that has unfolded. A club bids the amount, or close to it, that we deem acceptable for a a wantaway high earning member of staff who aside from showing up to train a couple of days a week, is a non-contributing member of the squad. We accept the bid (although not ideal that it's to a divisional rival) and he moves on. We were going to see zero return on investment from him this season so we have secured a fee and freed up what is, in all honesty, probably a significant wage.

Option B - We hold firm and decide under no circumstances are we selling to another club in the division. With four weeks to go in the window and most clubs having completed or being close to completing their squads, we then run the risk that we either sell him really late on to any last minute bidder with no time to find a replacement either in his position or in any other position or worse - we don't sell him at all. He's now locked in until at least January and tying up a costly wage whilst his presence on the wage bill is also denying us the chance to bring in replacements. 

Option C - Same as option B but you reintroduce him to the squad and make him available to play. A guy who is not happy to be here and was denied a move. A guy whose head is clearly not in playing for the club anymore and wants away ASAP.

Nobody is being deliberately obtuse here. Are you honestly trying to say that option B/C is better than A though? Because in the end it might work out but there's a very high and costly risk that it won't. Maybe a Shrewsbury or a Northampton would have come in and bid what we wanted but I don't believe for a second that feelers won't have gone out to clubs all over the UK that we feel were actively trying to find a new goalkeeper and who were willing to meet the price we'd expect and turned up very few takers.

Do you not think the better option is for everyone to cut and run now when we have time, opportunity and now resources to move on and hopefully strengthen the squad? It's not ideal, I'd have loved for him to piss off south of the border and not strengthen another side in the league but given the options on the table, I struggle to find reasoning in anyone saying the one the club took wasn't the best.

[pozbaird]

1 hour ago, Ric said:

I've given it 24 hours to see if I see this differently, but I don't, and I have to say I'm pretty taken back by the some of the responses to my comments, it's almost like people are being intentionally obtuse here. You cannot convince me that selling one of your better players last season to your opposition is anything but stupid. Yes, he had to go, we all accepted that, but we most definitely could have blocked the move.

Yes, it's good that the situation is resolved, yes, if we get any money that is a positive - I am not in any way denying that - but you cannot just ignore everything and say "well that's just the way it is" then complain when people raise the issue.

It's done now, I just really really fucking hope we get an experienced replacement.

 

 

Don’t know why you’re taken aback at some of the reactions to your comments when your comments were pretty much along the lines of being shocked at the sheer stupidity of St Mirren. Those comments never particularly bothered me,  but I can see why you got the responses you did. Now you’re suggesting St Mirren should have blocked the move. That would have worked out well for everyone involved, I don’t think. Not entirely sure why you think St Mirren are to blame here, nor frankly why Carson going to Dundee signals the dark blues owning us this coming season. We haven’t alllowed Erling Haaland to leave and join a newly promoted side for a laugh.

Maybe if Dundee, Bradford City, Sunderland and some Saudi 4th Division mob had all been in for Carson, but our BoD said ‘No, we want to sell you to Dundee’, then aye, somebody slipped class A substances in Lasley’s coffee, but that’s seemingly not what happened here.

 

Edit - Mon’ Ric, get onboard the Hemming appreciation express… He’s done OK in the LC Group….

Edited August 3, 2023 by pozbaird

[Wilbur]

'Option A' all the way IMO.

Throw the bad apple out of the barrel ASAP to prevent the rot spreading to the rest.

[FTOF]

4 hours ago, Liam899 said:

f**k sake, not the old fishing line response surely

All this seethe for a 35 year old ‘keeper. Roll on the season. Good luck, buddies. 

It's quite obvious that the last sentence was added as an afterthought to "get a bite". Everyone, me included, falls for them now and again. There's no shame in admitting so.

I don't for one minute think you'll be going back into administration/bankruptcy, nor would I wish it upon you. 

However, you have paid us money and taken two of our highest earners on board, in contracts totalling five years. Not cheap.

Carson is a very good keeper. Would I have liked to keep him? Of course. However, you can't legislate for the situation that he's created and we've come out of it better of in more respects than I thought.

Good luck for the season, except against us of course.

 

[Captain_Sensible]

We shipped a barrowload of goals in the last quarter of the season with Carson and Shaughnessy in the side. 
 

These guys are not going to make Dundee a defensive fortress. Carson was meh for me.

I’m confident that Hemming and Bolton are upgrades 

[Bobby_F]

I don't think I've ever boo'ed an ex-Saints player on their return to St Mirren Park.

But then again, I don't think anyone's ever been quite as 'bad a leaver' as Carson.

Real shame, but I think he'll get a very hot reception on the 12th.  And if the reasons for this are actually as people are assuming, he'll deserve it.

[FTOF]

2 minutes ago, Bobby_F said:

I don't think I've ever boo'ed an ex-Saints player on their return to St Mirren Park.

But then again, I don't think anyone's ever been quite as 'bad a leaver' as Carson.

Real shame, but I think he'll get a very hot reception on the 12th.  And if the reasons for this are actually as people are assuming, he'll deserve it.

Why bother?

It won't achieve anything.

The only time I've booed an ex-player simply for jumping ship was Junior Mendes when he left for Dunfermline. To be fair they guy was broken after about 20 minutes as "mass booing" occurred every time he got the ball. He was that badly affected that he had to be subbed at HT.

[Molotov]

Is Ric just trying to elicit responses with his ludicrous argument regarding the departure of Carson?

It’s an absolute no fcuking brainer to get shot of him. 

He was just an employee of the club and while playing served us well.

If he didn’t want to play for us surely anyone can see that it was a situation the club had to seize the opportunity to move him on for least amount of money and disruption as possible. 
 

We could not have continued with this hanging over us. Imagine if he was brought back into the first team and he had a howler and cost us vital points - the fans would have been on his back forever. 

Good keeper that TC was for the us he never actually won any major domestic honours so Money and Samson were better servants to our club IMHO!  

All of us need to back Hemming 100%.

He is young and less experienced so let’s support him in the same way we backed Billy Thomson and Campbell Money when they started in our first team.
 

 

[glenburn bud]

I’m pretty much bored with this whole Carson thing now. You would honestly think we’ve just sold Buffon by the way some people are reacting. 
He’s 35 and a decent keeper, his position at the club was one that became clear when there’s been an obvious fall out with management. 
 

We had to move him on and use his high earning wage to strengthen the squad in areas that are far more important.

Get behind the two keepers who want to be here and move the f**k on.

[medals]

43 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

We shipped a barrowload of goals in the last quarter of the season with Carson and Shaughnessy in the side. 
 

These guys are not going to make Dundee a defensive fortress. Carson was meh for me.

I’m confident that Hemming and Bolton are upgrades 

Like your optimism. Will be I'm hoping. 

Early days for them and Bolton is not match fit yet.

So long as Hemming doesn't have more than an acassional mistake the fans in general will take to him.

Bolton, if he says fit and gets into the 1st team regular will earn his place. I think he'll be a tougher competitor and be quicker than Joe.

Against us the ex saints might be at the top of their game, but how nice would it be if Carson made a couple of howlers and then got sent off?

[Insaintee]

I get Ric's concerns. But I have a few questions. Firstly was Carson really one of our best performers? I would have said Main, Strain, Baccus, Gogic, Gallagher, O'Hara and maybe Ayunga and Fraser all comfortably ahead of him in terms of performance.  He managed to silence his critics that were concerned by the loss of Alnwick and were concerned by his lack of game time and dodgy performances of the last few seasons. I would say that like Main the question is he can reproduce his form under a new management in a new team and with a new defence. If he can reproduce his form then good for him. He obviously is strengthening Dundee. Why else would they buy him? But if they did not spend that money on Carson they would have spent it else where. Put it this way, if we were going to spend 100,000k on a goal keeper would Carson be top of our list? I don't think so. Would we even want to spend it on a keeper?

We saw Gallagher go an be replaced instantly by what looks like a significant up grade. Is Hemming an upgrade? He might be. In the pool we fish in he's as likely to be as anyone else. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Insaintee

[tam the bud]

39 minutes ago, Bobby_F said:

I don't think I've ever boo'ed an ex-Saints player on their return to St Mirren Park.

But then again, I don't think anyone's ever been quite as 'bad a leaver' as Carson.

Real shame, but I think he'll get a very hot reception on the 12th.  And if the reasons for this are actually as people are assuming, he'll deserve it.

Think i am the same. 

Best to ignore them rather than let them think they have got into your head. 

[AW saint]

If Carson was an outfield player there would not be such concern. Being in a specialist position and good at his job makes him more invaluable to fans. 

Every time a keeper moves on there is panic.  We have done really well with our keepers of late. 

Hemming has the confidence of Robbo and so far so good.

I am delighted to take the cash from Dundee. If it gives us money to strengthen then even better. 

[Coventry Saint]

I'm not happy about the situation overall, but this is the best outcome when you take everything into account. Hemming is probably a confidence kinda player based on what we know about him, so we need to make him feel welcome and part of the club. I don't think we'll be bringing in a guy to rival him at this stage.

[Abstract]

Carson has gone, we need to move on.

Hladky and Alnwick stole us points when they were here, I can't really remember a game when Carson did that. He was a good keeper, far from irreplacable and benefited from playing in a much better side than either Hladky or Alnwick did.

[AW saint]

23 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

I'm not happy about the situation overall, but this is the best outcome when you take everything into account. Hemming is probably a confidence kinda player based on what we know about him, so we need to make him feel welcome and part of the club. I don't think we'll be bringing in a guy to rival him at this stage.

We have until the window closes. If Hemming starts well and looks assured then no need to bring in a keeper. 

If however he is a disaster we have time to get someone else in. 

 

[Div]

Three weeks on and it seems the mystery striker isn’t coming after all