"The ICT Thread - From the Premiership to the Seaside"

[welshbairn]

59 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

so there is an argument (not saying I agree with it!) 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[TxRover]

Trying to wade through the last few pages, is this pretty much it?

Current "White Knight" (Savage) prefers Administration, despite 15 point penalty, in order to clear the Club of debt...and has been funding the Club the last month or so to try to control the entry into Admin.

Club has around £3.42 million of debt...not sure how much in assets.

Deadline is 16 Oct, 2024.

Most creditors are going to get little if anything.

Savage is looking to pickup the wreckage and try to effectively reboot ICT, potentially from League Two and part-time.

 

Jesus wept, surely anyone associated with this toxic mess (before the attempted saving) will be persona non gratia in fitba forever.

[invergowrie arab]

45 minutes ago, moses1924 said:

 One thing that never fails to amaze me is how successful business people can be hapless when it comes to running football clubs, one of our directors at the time of administration being a chartered accountant for example... 

Because any business is mostly luck and the strengths and skills of the individual to make it a success are massively overplayed.

There is the confirmation bias of the super lucky ones getting platforms to explain to you why it wasn't luck but something innate in them.

Basically Jeff Bezoz is a man who won a 50 million person coin flip competition who has a platform to explain to you that it was actually manifesting that did it.

That or they had money to begin with.

 

[M4R00N]

As an Arbroath fan, I'm gutted for you as fans. It's a place I've always felt welcome and even attended a few non-Arbroath games too. 

I did have a chuckle at a fan shouting to Dunc on Sat... "No chance of you downing tools and f**king off no?". 

On the wider situation, Gardners ability to run un-checked is astounding but we've all met people like him in business. Good at covering his mistakes and gambles when it's not his own money to gamble with. Even with a good board and chairman, it's nigh on impossible to have that level of scrutiny and CEOs need to be trusted to do their thing so it doesnt actually surprise me how well he hid it all . I always felt the decision to stay full-time in League 1 was ego based for him and the board... with how close this league is, nobody (bar Falkirk who built a team) was ever going to run away with it, so having full time level overheads with part-time level income was a recipe for disaster. Off the top of my head only QOTS are full time in the league with Cove being more of a hybrid system. 

The announcement about the potential takeover seemed very hasty too. Spoke to a Caley fan on Saturday who said that the guy has had 9/10 businesses, 8 were dissolved and the other 2 made no money. Surely that's the absolute basics of due diligence and something you'd check prior to announcing him as the messiah?

Savage seems to be the only person between survival and the abyss but there's definitely a hint he'll be looking to buy the club for a quid at the end of this. He has 2 options... buy it now for a net 3-4 million investment, still tied to ludicrous contracts, so anything up to £5M, or help it through the admin process and pick it up for an on paper total of £650,001 at the end of it (350k +300k he mentioned plus his £1 purchase cost) with the club starting from scratch, debt-free. 

Worrying times for the club but I hope you survive and aren't liquidated, a great wee history and still one of my favourite back page headlines... "Super Caley go ballistic..." 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Out of interest, would it be the full value of the contract that is added to the creditor list, or is it just a statutory redundancy amount? Or something in the middle?

Football creditors must be paid in full afaik. That said, I'd again caveat it with the fact I'd need to check if managers count as one.

 

2 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

So apart from the time it has been done, its never been done? 

Its not even that much of an outlier.  There haven't been *that* many administrations, not enough to call it an outlier.

Nobody is saying it will happen, but nobody can say for sure it won't happen.  Once the administrators are in, they run the show.

This. Not sure why @DA Baracus has decided to take offence at the Insolvency Act here. Nobody's said cancelling season tickets will happen. The fact it hasnt in most admins previously suggests administrators have seen it generally as counter productive. All that was said was that it is a course of action potentially available. 

It's far likelier season tickets will be honoured but perhaps an appeal to those who can afford to pay again to do so. I'm sure thats happened before? 

[strichener]

7 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

It makes absolutely zero sense to cancel season tickets. Apart from a single expection, why has it never been before?

It hasn't been done because it's ludicrous and stupid. These situations are when fans are needed the most and telling them to, basically, f**k off and pay again isn't going to help that. You'll be alienating many of the core fanbase who could then become less inclined to help out. Some could think it's not worth it and walk away completely.

It doesn't save Inverness any money and doesn't make them any money, because there's no way many folk will pay once more for something they've already purchased, especially knowing they will get little to nothing back for their season ticket (and since some games have already been used, what is the calculation there?).

Adding however many hundreds of folk to a list of creditors means Inverness need to pay out even more money. This potentially means any sort of CVA will also be less if there are hundreds more creditors as you're diluting the funds to be distributed. Furthermore, adding hundreds of creditors, especially ones you've angered recently, significantly increases the chance of it not being accepted as many could vote against it.

 

There is no argument for cancelling season tickets which is why it hasn't been done, save for one outlier. Unsure why this has even been raised. There was no talk of this during any other administrations.

A CVA is passed on value of debts, not number of creditors.

[parsforlife]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

It's far likelier season tickets will be honoured but perhaps an appeal to those who can afford to pay again to do so. I'm sure thats happened before? 

We were directly told not to buy extra tickets that were not going to be used but instead make a donation to save the VAT.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

We were directly told not to buy extra tickets that were not going to be used but instead make a donation to save the VAT.

Yeah makes sense.

[DA Baracus]

6 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Football creditors must be paid in full afaik. That said, I'd again caveat it with the fact I'd need to check if managers count as one.

 

This. Not sure why @DA Baracus has decided to take offence at the Insolvency Act here. Nobody's said cancelling season tickets will happen. The fact it hasnt in most admins previously suggests administrators have seen it generally as counter productive. All that was said was that it is a course of action potentially available. 

It's far likelier season tickets will be honoured but perhaps an appeal to those who can afford to pay again to do so. I'm sure thats happened before? 

Ah yes, discussion means offence. I didn't think you were in to those tropes. I suppose you'll accuse me of bring 'rattled' or 'seething' next.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Ah yes, discussion means offence. I didn't think you were in to those tropes. I suppose you'll accuse me of bring 'rattled' or 'seething' next.

You're getting into a bit of a 2n8 to be fair. Relax, it's only Inverness.

Edited 18 hours ago by Sergeant Wilson

[forkboy]

7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Football creditors must be paid in full afaik. That said, I'd again caveat it with the fact I'd need to check if managers count as one.

@DA Baracus 

Coaching staff do in fact count as football creditors according to the SPFL rules

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Ah yes, discussion means offence. I didn't think you were in to those tropes. I suppose you'll accuse me of bring 'rattled' or 'seething' next.

You did seem to be getting quite upset about it for some reason. I'm not going to accuse you of anything, I've got no skin in this game.

[Skyline Drifter]

5 minutes ago, forkboy said:

Coaching staff do in fact count as football creditors according to the SPFL rules

Fair enough, that must be a fairly recent change. Dodds and Chisholm didn't count when Dundee went into admin but other clubs did.

[forkboy]

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Fair enough, that must be a fairly recent change. Dodds and Chisholm didn't count when Dundee went into admin but other clubs did.

Yeah, I don't know when they changed that but it's under section E17 of the SPFL rules and regulations, and does mention both manager and the coaching staff.

Presumably it was a direct response to Dundee though

[RedLichtie86]

24 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Fair enough, that must be a fairly recent change. Dodds and Chisholm didn't count when Dundee went into admin but other clubs did.

I thought Dodds did. He rejected the  Dundee CVA. Then years later when Jim McIntyre was taking over at Dundee he wanted to bring Dodds in as his Assistant and the Dundee fans were set to invade Dens to hang him like Mussolini.

[Skyline Drifter]

4 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

I thought Dodds did. He rejected the  Dundee CVA. Then years later when Jim McIntyre was taking over at Dundee he wanted to bring Dodds in as his Assistant and the Dundee fans were set to invade Dens to hang him like Mussolini.

That's the point. He wouldn't have been IN the CVA if he was a guaranteed creditor. He wouldn't have needed to vote for or against a pennies in the pound settlement if he was guaranteed his money.

[DA Baracus]

31 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

You did seem to be getting quite upset about it for some reason. I'm not going to accuse you of anything, I've got no skin in this game.

Quite the Trump tactics here. We're not even arguing as such, more discussing things, yet you feel you have to try and make me seem like an unreasonable 'upset' person in some sort of attempt to discredit what I'm saying. Really odd behaviour.

What's next in the routine here? Doubling down on the 'upset' patter or the old 'take a break' stuff?

Disappointing from someone who I thought was a pretty good poster.

[Staggie52]

29 minutes ago, forkboy said:

Yeah, I don't know when they changed that but it's under section E17 of the SPFL rules and regulations, and does mention both manager and the coaching staff.

Presumably it was a direct response to Dundee though

Looks like the SPFL insolvency rules were substantially changed in 2014. 

[welshbairn]

The elephant in the room is Ross Morrison's floating charge over all the club's assets, along with direct ownership of the car park leases and battery farm project with others. A successful administration depends on his cooperation and potentially losing a shed load of money.

[Buzz Killington]

It was me that said season tickets would be cancelled but it seems that is very unlikely.  Deleighted to be wrong about that. 

I still don't beleive any of the first team squad will be safe from redundancies.  If the club is currently losing £200k per month then theres no chance that we will be keeping any players other than kids.