"The ICT Thread - From the Premiership to the Seaside"

[CityDave94]

Dislike the idea that we are going to have to rely on loanees to get us out of this relegation battle, but needs must. But they have to be better than what we already have.  Further on if we stay up the new management team are facing almost a complete rebuild in the summer.

Worst season ever.

 

[TheScarf]

20 minutes ago, CityDave94 said:

Dislike the idea that we are going to have to rely on loanees to get us out of this relegation battle, but needs must. But they have to be better than what we already have.  Further on if we stay up the new management team are facing almost a complete rebuild in the summer.

Worst season ever.

 

I'm fairly confident that won't be a problem.  We have a decent starting 11 when everyone is available, then absolutely nothing on the bench that doesn't immediately weaken us severely. The drop off in quality needs to be seen to believed.  It's absolutely incredible.  Proven by them drawing 2-2 with a Highland League side over 2 hours in the NoS Cup, then losing on penalties, and then drawing 0-0 for 80 minutes with a Lowland League side in the Scottish Cup, until our Championship starting 11 came off the bench to save our blushes.

Also, we simply cannot rely on Welsh, Doran or MacGregor to stay fit and actually contribute anything anymore, or certainly the first two, who need to go at the end of the season. I'd give MacGregor one more season and if we're in the same boat with him in January 2025, look to offload him.

I think we'll finish 9th and get relegated via the play off.

 

[Central Belt Caley]

I would like to add a centre back to the January wishlist. As Wallace Duffy isn’t very good at football.

24 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Also, we simply cannot rely on Welsh, Doran or MacGregor to stay fit and actually contribute anything anymore, or certainly the first two, who need to go at the end of the season. I'd give MacGregor one more season and if we're in the same boat with him in January 2025, look to offload him.

Doran should’ve been out the door 2/3 seasons ago. Welsh is made of glass and i wince anytime someone goes near him. Macgregors last prolonged period in the team was the 21/22 season I’m sure, reduced terms for next season or he can go elsewhere. 
 

It will be interesting to see what Dunc’s strategy is. Butcher loved the English lower leagues, Hughes had a fetish for centre mids and Robbo took punts on guys who’d fallen by the wayside (Donaldson, Chalmers etc). 

[ICTChris]

The recruitment in the last few years has been really poor, especially permanent signings.  Since 2021 here are all the players we've signed permanently:

Anthony MacDonald, Michael Gardyne, Tom Walsh, Manny Duku, Billy Mckay, Kirk Broadfoot, Austin Samuels, Max Ram, Steven Boyd, Nathan Shaw, George Oakley, Zak Delaney, Ryan Barrett, Jake Davidson, Charlie Gilmour, Adam Brooks, Luis Longstaff, David Wotherspoon, Harry Lodovica, Cillian Sheridan.

Of those how many have been among our best players?  How many have even been regular starters?  Billy Mckay and Nathan Shaw are probably the only two who fit both criteria.  Wotherspoon as well but he's on a very short term deal and will be away soon.  I think Gilmour looks pretty good but none of the others we've signed who are still at the club look like the sort of guys who are first on the team sheet.

We have had some success in the loan market - Max Anderson and Morgan Boyes seem like good additions this year and Jay Henderson, Daniel Mckay, Logan Chalmers and Sam pearson were all decent.

Overall we need a complete reset in how we bring in players.

[TheScarf]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

The recruitment in the last few years has been really poor, especially permanent signings.  Since 2021 here are all the players we've signed permanently:

Anthony MacDonald, Michael Gardyne, Tom Walsh, Manny Duku, Billy Mckay, Kirk Broadfoot, Austin Samuels, Max Ram, Steven Boyd, Nathan Shaw, George Oakley, Zak Delaney, Ryan Barrett, Jake Davidson, Charlie Gilmour, Adam Brooks, Luis Longstaff, David Wotherspoon, Harry Lodovica, Cillian Sheridan.

Of those how many have been among our best players?  How many have even been regular starters?  Billy Mckay and Nathan Shaw are probably the only two who fit both criteria.  Wotherspoon as well but he's on a very short term deal and will be away soon.  I think Gilmour looks pretty good but none of the others we've signed who are still at the club look like the sort of guys who are first on the team sheet.

We have had some success in the loan market - Max Anderson and Morgan Boyes seem like good additions this year and Jay Henderson, Daniel Mckay, Logan Chalmers and Sam pearson were all decent.

Overall we need a complete reset in how we bring in players.

Save from Shaw that's an absolutely disgusting Summer 2022 and January 2023 window. I mean, just compare it to the players you list before the ones in bold.

Summer 2023 doesn't look too good either, save from Wotherspoon and Gilmour.

[Stephen Malkmus]

Going by the streams I've watched this season, our defensive shape tends to be decent, but it doesn't allow us to transition quickly into attack as our wing backs tend to drop back into a flattish 5. This leaves fewer bodies up the park to allow us to mount quick counter attacks and the players we have in the middle of the park don't have the athleticism to overcome this.

We're also really ponderous when going forward and the movement from the front players isn't great. So many goals in this league come from hopeful balls into the box that are only half cleared - we're not capitalising on this at the moment due to being too cautious with the ball and not getting enough players in there. 

[Central Belt Caley]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Anthony MacDonald, Michael Gardyne, Tom Walsh, Manny Duku, Billy Mckay, Kirk Broadfoot, Austin Samuels, Max Ram, Steven Boyd, Nathan Shaw, George Oakley, Zak Delaney, Ryan Barrett, Jake Davidson, Charlie Gilmour, Adam Brooks, Luis Longstaff, David Wotherspoon, Harry Lodovica, Cillian Sheridan.

For me, Mckay, Broadfoot, Shaw, Gilmour and Wotherspoon were/are good for us. Gardyne was good but his off field antics overshadow any contribution on the pitch. Delaney started brightly but has dropped off. 

f**k knows how guys like Boyd, Ram and Lodovica got a contract.

A big annoyance for me last season was releasing Oakley then he goes to Morton and is doing fairly well by all accounts

[ICTChris]

1 minute ago, TheScarf said:

Save from Shaw that's an absolutely disgusting Summer 2022 and January 2023 window. I mean, just compare it to the players you list before the ones in bold.

Summer 2023 doesn't look too good either, save from Wotherspoon and Gilmour.

The last really half decent transfer window we've had was in summer 2020 when we signed Shane Sutherland, Robbie Deas, Scott Allardice and Danny Devine.  

[TheScarf]

Just now, ICTChris said:

The last really half decent transfer window we've had was in summer 2020 when we signed Shane Sutherland, Robbie Deas, Scott Allardice and Danny Devine.  

Yep, all 4 contributed positively and got us to the Play Off final and Scottish Cup final.   It's wild how much we've regressed in 18 months.

[CityDave94]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

I'm fairly confident that won't be a problem.  We have a decent starting 11 when everyone is available, then absolutely nothing on the bench that doesn't immediately weaken us severely. The drop off in quality needs to be seen to believed.  It's absolutely incredible.  Proven by them drawing 2-2 with a Highland League side over 2 hours in the NoS Cup, then losing on penalties, and then drawing 0-0 for 80 minutes with a Lowland League side in the Scottish Cup, until our Championship starting 11 came off the bench to save our blushes.

Also, we simply cannot rely on Welsh, Doran or MacGregor to stay fit and actually contribute anything anymore, or certainly the first two, who need to go at the end of the season. I'd give MacGregor one more season and if we're in the same boat with him in January 2025, look to offload him.

I think we'll finish 9th and get relegated via the play off.

 

Play off against either Falkirk or Hamilton who we never beat when it really matters.

.........and swatted aside by Broomhill at home in the Scottish Cup.

Dark times ahead.

 

[TheScarf]

7 minutes ago, CityDave94 said:

Play off against either Falkirk or Hamilton who we never beat when it really matters.

.........and swatted aside by Broomhill at home in the Scottish Cup.

Dark times ahead.

 

I think we'll beat Broomhill as long as none of our benchwarmers start the game.  Get the game won then bring on the shite.  Hamilton or Falkirk should beat us over 2 legs I agree.

[PB1994]

3 hours ago, Stephen Malkmus said:

Going by the streams I've watched this season, our defensive shape tends to be decent, but it doesn't allow us to transition quickly into attack as our wing backs tend to drop back into a flattish 5. This leaves fewer bodies up the park to allow us to mount quick counter attacks and the players we have in the middle of the park don't have the athleticism to overcome this.

We're also really ponderous when going forward and the movement from the front players isn't great. So many goals in this league come from hopeful balls into the box that are only half cleared - we're not capitalising on this at the moment due to being too cautious with the ball and not getting enough players in there. 

Aye, the five at the back has made us pretty solid at the back, which is something we needed to fix and we were awful defensively under Dodds. It worked a treat away to Dundee United too but I think it might be time to try four at the back again. As you say, when we are playing against the middle/bottom teams in the league we really need to have more bodies in attacking positions. A fair few times we have played some nice stuff until the final third but when looking to get the ball in the box there is nobody bloody there. Chronic lack of pace in the team and the wingers we do have are shite so maybe that is why he has stuck with the 3-5-2 formation or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

The last really half decent transfer window we've had was in summer 2020 when we signed Shane Sutherland, Robbie Deas, Scott Allardice and Danny Devine.  

The 2021 summer window was good for Championship level. You can really see the drop off subsequently though, I assume it’s largely a budgetary issue this season.

[Central Belt Caley]

29 minutes ago, PB1994 said:

Aye, the five at the back has made us pretty solid at the back, which is something we needed to fix and we were awful defensively under Dodds. It worked a treat away to Dundee United too but I think it might be time to try four at the back again. As you say, when we are playing against the middle/bottom teams in the league we really need to have more bodies in attacking positions. A fair few times we have played some nice stuff until the final third but when looking to get the ball in the box there is nobody bloody there. Chronic lack of pace in the team and the wingers we do have are shite so maybe that is why he has stuck with the 3-5-2 formation or whatever you want to call it.

 

The amount of times yesterday Harper got the ball 30 yards from our goal then has to run 40 yards before he’s anywhere close to an attacking position was ridiculous. 
 

The saving grace for us vs the teams round about us is that we’ve conceded far less than they have. If we’re able to find a formation that means more bodies in attacking positions we’ll be fine I think. Right now, we’re utterly toothless up front 

[TheScarf]

10 minutes ago, Central Belt Caley said:

The amount of times yesterday Harper got the ball 30 yards from our goal then has to run 40 yards before he’s anywhere close to an attacking position was ridiculous. 
 

The saving grace for us vs the teams round about us is that we’ve conceded far less than they have. If we’re able to find a formation that means more bodies in attacking positions we’ll be fine I think. Right now, we’re utterly toothless up front 

That was my thinking too. Scoring goals is our problem. 

[CityDave94]

2nd worst = in goals for at 20, 7 of these came in two games.

Any more of this and people will start calling us Inverness Caledonian Thistle Nil. Would it be possible to 0-0 draw our way out of trouble?

 

 

[Central Belt Caley]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

That was my thinking too. Scoring goals is our problem. 

Great minds and all that brother 

[SandyCromarty]

With nearly half the season to go I refuse to entertain any thoughts of relegation and prefer to be positive, sure 4 wins out of 19 games and  what seems to be a runaway burning wagon of games over the last few weeks has been disastrous but many times backs against the wall can turn a team around.

As for players, we are far from the attraction we were plus our location doesn't help, recruitment has been a shambles of a hit and miss over the last few seasons, signing a player who was at virtually english pub league level was reckless and really questionable as to who sanctioned it.

Money is our recruitment problem and because of it we have to look at half salary loanees or youth players, also due to the situation we are in there has to be a ruthless clear out with any loyalties put to one side.

As I said I remain positive and my play off ambition will be towards the top half and not the cess pit of survival struggle.

As Jock Stein was fond of saying, 'Faint Heart never Fecked a Pig.

Edited January 3 by SandyCromarty

[sophia]

33 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Money is our recruitment problem 

If only we had more season ticket investors. 

[sophia]

With Jim Goodwin saying that he's a players he's always admired and Duncan Ferguson contemplating replacing him being a difficult task, I'd well imagine that Tannadice is going to be the place to regularly view the not inconsiderable skills of David Wotherspoon. 

Ach well.