Junior football, what is the future?

[Goalie Hamish]

53 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

Thanks for posting that, is there more too it?

[stanley]

Bonnington Thistle came from the juniors?  Weird.  It also appears to be suggesting that they joined the "West of Scotland League".

Edited December 30, 2017 by stanley

[energyzone]

The email is littered with errors. Have BSC Glasgow made any public comment on the authenticity of the email and have there been any discussions between BSC, the clubs in receipt of the email and the SJFA/SFA regarding the proposal?

[kefc]

If there’s enough teams interested in a West Of Scotland League then I’m certain the time is now and they will be able to push it through for next season if the interested clubs can get to work on it. Interested clubs would have virtually 18 months from now to achieve their licence for promotion to the LL, you would think the winners of the new WOS would also get automatic entry into the Scottish Cup the same as the EOS & SOS. Clubs getting in early could if expected change comes to the pyramid effectively be 2/3 divisions higher than current Junior clubs who choose to stay.

It was only last year that the EOS League had an info and an application pack In the public domain for clubs to join their respective league, I think there is a desire to progress tier 6 and what better way than to fill the 3 spaces available in the EOS League and have a new WOS League alongside. It would not only revitalise and further strengthen the pyramid and its clubs but also the non league cup competitions. If this was to come off common sense would say that more promotion/relegation places would be made into LL from tier 6 also.

Auchinleck Talbot were keen on this 6 months ago, a WOS League seems to be what they were after, wonder if they are still of the same mind.

Edited December 30, 2017 by kefc

[parkcircus]

1 hour ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Thanks for posting that, is there more too it?

Other than a picture of the pyramid that’s it

[Cyclizine]

Is that really the email? There's so many basic errors in it: league and club names, punctuation, capitalisation etc. I find it hard to believe it was sent out by what is allegedly a fairly media savvy club.

[LongTimeLurker]

3 hours ago, energyzone said:

The email is littered with errors. Have BSC Glasgow made any public comment on the authenticity of the email and have there been any discussions between BSC, the clubs in receipt of the email and the SJFA/SFA regarding the proposal?

Check back through the thread and the first part appears to have been answered in the affirmative. 

[FairWeatherFan]

7 hours ago, Patches O'Houlihan said:

The email did emanate from our club chairman, which I suspect was a first draft, and sent out before he had checked for grammatical errors. However the sentiment of the email remains the same, regardless of any grammar crimes.

We will present a fuller proposal when afforded the opportunity  by the SFA and SJFA after their initial discussions, which I believe are on the agenda for Jan 5th.

There's a bit in the Sundat Mail about the BSC proposal. Quotes from the Chairmen of both BSC &  Kilwinning Rangers, with Tam Johnston as well. Kilwinning sound like their listening and make a complaint over the fixture list, Kilbirnie Ladeside are stated as being a no, Johnston mentions the meeting on Jan 5th.

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 hours ago, Patches O'Houlihan said:

The email did emanate from our club chairman, which I suspect was a first draft, and sent out before he had checked for grammatical errors. However the sentiment of the email remains the same, regardless of any grammar crimes.

We will present a fuller proposal when afforded the opportunity  by the SFA and SJFA after their initial discussions, which I believe are on the agenda for Jan 5th.

Aside from the grammatical errors, the sending before checking it, shows a lack of professionalism and respect for the recipient. A more professional approach is one of the carrots dangled for clubs joining the senior leagues. But getting the name and origin of one of the example clubs wrong is a bit of an insult.

I'd be dubious about falling in line behind someone who has such an eye for detail. There's people on here could do better.

[Shanner]

This can't actually be moving forward? surely? 

[FairWeatherFan]

Something's happening at the very least. It doesn't seem like what we've got will be the same by the time 2020 rolls around. Most of the SPFL talk around introducing colt teams was for the start of the 2018/19 season. Considering the Lowland League was supposedly started in a 6 week span, the SPFL could still push through what they want for next season and that has a knock on effect on everyone else.

[Kilbowie Benches]

Tom Johnstone says he’s been in negotiations? 

It would have been nice if he had told his members about it!

 

[Che Dail]

59 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Aside from the grammatical errors, the sending before checking it, shows a lack of professionalism and respect for the recipient. A more professional approach is one of the carrots dangled for clubs joining the senior leagues. But getting the name and origin of one of the example clubs wrong is a bit of an insult.

I'd be dubious about falling in line behind someone who has such an eye for detail. There's people on here could do better.

Putting typos and forgivable errors to one side, there is nothing wrong with:

We are interested in starting a West of Scotland League that will mirror the East & South of Scotland leagues in what is effectively the 6th Tier of the Scottish Football pyramid.  This would create a local alternative route for ambitious [West] Clubs.

There seems to be significant interest in pyramid in the West region  with participation in the SoS league being the main barrier so far.  This proposal is therefore a logical step forward.  Junior clubs wishing to progress can join the league and others wishing to stay put can do so. 

I don't think there's a suggestion that clubs would be falling in line behind anyone - this is an open invite for positive collaboration with clubs who are already engaged with the LL and keen to promote it - it doesn't need to be adversarial.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Che Dail

[Dipple burn]

I myself like the idea of the West Super League as a tier in the Pyramid but I would like to hear what the SJFA have to say on the matter. I was a no vote for the West/East amalgimtion due to travel but the West Super has attracted my attention. When we went for our license we were told that it would only be granted if we joined the pyramid at SOL level which would have been a financial disaster for us. I spoke to a couple of fellow members of our building committee yesterday and they also seemed that the West idea was feasible. I think it will only take one big club to champion the idea and the rest will follow.

[Burnie_man]

Anyone got a link to the Sunday Mail article? couldn't see anything online.

Introducing a WoSFL is a no brainer, the tricky bit is getting the SJFA to co-operate to allow relegation between that and the Junior Superleague.  If that agreement was to be reached, then there would need to be reciprocal arrangements with EoSFL and the East Superleague.  It also calls into question the arrangement between the HFL and the North Juniors.

Depends what this 5th Jan meeting is going to cover. As someone else pointed out, the LL was put in place with 6 weeks notice so getting a WoSFL off the ground for next season is easy,

Edited December 31, 2017 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Tom Johnstone says he’s been in negotiations? 

It would have been nice if he had told his members about it!

 

Has any club heard anything from this SJFA Pyramid working group?

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, Tynieness said:

Nope, we heard about it from an entirely separate body.

It would have been nice to have been consulted and at least have views taken on board.

Would be interesting to see who is going to be involved, will it be people who have an interedt in moving game forward or will it be those like TJ who say pyramid is flawed end of discussion.

Kelty moving shook things up, others are thinking so something has to happen.

 

I would have thought that in order to have a meaningful forum/working group, you'd want people on it with a wide range of views, and not all from the SJFA either.  Maybe there is...

[archieb]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Has any club heard anything from this SJFA Pyramid working group?

Quote from the SJFA Management Committee minutes for November:

"PYRAMID

As previously reported, there had been no recent discussions on the structure below the SPFL.  To date, the discussions had centred round how Junior Football might participate in the Pyramid, namely :

(i)    Joint East / West Superleague heading the Junior Pyramid.
(ii)    Existing Junior structure, i.e. East and West integrating to Pyramid.
(iii)    Existing East and West Juniors feeding in to Lowland League.
(iv)    North Pyramid, i.e. above Tay – no discussions of note to date on this point.

A date for a further meeting was awaited."

Haven't seen any December minutes yet ....
 

[Che Dail]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

the tricky bit is getting the SJFA to co-operate to allow relegation between that and the Junior Superleague.  If that agreement was to be reached, then there would need to be reciprocal arrangements with EoSFL and the East Superleague.  

I'm not sure there needs to be relegation / promotion to and from the Junior grade - many of the club don't want to engage with the pyramid and they can stay where they are - everyone has a choice.

So just like the EoS arrangement now, if a club wants to join, it can - and if enough clubs apply then additional divisions can be formed. 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

I'm not sure there needs to be relegation / promotion to and from the Junior grade - many of the club don't want to engage with the pyramid and they can stay where they are - everyone has a choice.

So just like the EoS arrangement now, if a club wants to join, it can - and if enough clubs apply then additional divisions can be formed. 

 

 

For it to be a Pyramid then you need promotion and relegation, and given the fact that promotion to the EoSFL (or a future WoSFL) from the leagues below wouldn't involve being Licenced, then there really isn't anything to be concerned about for Junior clubs, it's just another division above, just another promotion.  As people keep pointing out, for 90% of Junior clubs nothing much would change on a weekly basis to what they have now.