Junior football, what is the future?

[A.M]

Just now, cmontheloknow said:

There's no easy to swallow answer for the smaller village clubs without resorting to cliches like 'find your level' etc... But there's a place for very club within a pyramid, and the bottom is wider than the top (usually!) so there should be greater regionalisation and less strict requirements there. I do think there needs to be some kind of barrier at some level where you cannot advance if you don't have certain things in place.

no doubt about that, I just want the clubs who cant advance to survive,  my head is birling with all these pings from quotes etc, need to go and do some stuff 

[Ross.]

2 minutes ago, A.M said:

maybe , but they have survived for many years until now. 

They have, but there are plenty who are the death/retirement of a committee member away from disappearing.

Whatever the case, there has to be change in the juniors game. Whether it's linking up with the seniors or something else, something has to change.

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, A.M said:

We are advocating the SJFA  join the pyramid en mass, thats what I'm talking about , and we dont need the exclamation marks , as I said in my first post , any poster showing reservation appears to get vilified .

Well, best of luck with the 'all in, or all out' line, given the results of the Questionnaire. Perhaps the SJFA EGM should be broadcast live on BBC Scotland, or Sky Sports ? 

By the way, I was defending the right of junior clubs, to opt to stay with the SJFA if they WANT to do so. I for one, am not promoting the abolition of the SJFA.  

 

[A.M]

3 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Well, best of luck with the 'all in, or all out' line, given the results of the Questionnaire. Perhaps the SJFA EGM should be broadcast live on BBC Scotland, or Sky Sports ? 

By the way, I was defending the right of junior clubs, to opt to stay with the SJFA if they WANT to do so. I for one, am not promoting the abolition of the SJFA.  

 

I know that , when I said we I meant some on here, sometimes what we write comes across wrong

[Burnie_man]

I posted yesterday that I see the future as one where those clubs who want to, will continue to move over to the EoS in the East, and in the West the clubs that want to be part of the Pyramid will move into a new WoSFL for 2019/2020.

The remainder will stay Junior, and over the years will gradually move over into the Pyramid in dribs or drabs or stay where they are as a rump of clubs in various areas, happy with where they are, the set-up may even appeal to some Amateur clubs.

I just don’t foresee the SJFA moving en-masse Into the Pyramid as a body, they simply won’t get consensus (and may not be allowed anyway), and let’s remember those at the top table don’t have the enthusiasm for it after years of treating it with disdain.

[AlanCamelonfan]

36 minutes ago, A.M said:

We are advocating the SJFA  join the pyramid en mass, thats what I'm talking about , and we dont need the exclamation marks , as I said in my first post , any poster showing reservation appears to get vilified .

Could be done my post showing what east could look like and west could do same

[Glenconner]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I posted yesterday that I see the future as one where those clubs who want to, will continue to move over to the EoS in the East, and in the West the clubs that want to be part of the Pyramid will move into a new WoSFL for 2019/2020.

The remainder will stay Junior, and over the years will gradually move over into the Pyramid in dribs or drabs or stay where they are as a rump of clubs in various areas, happy with where they are, the set-up may even appeal to some Amateur clubs.

I just don’t foresee the SJFA moving en-masse Into the Pyramid as a body, they simply won’t get consensus (and may not be allowed anyway), and let’s remember those at the top table don’t have the enthusiasm for it after years of treating it with disdain.

Will a West of Scotland league be the tier below the Lowland League? And the rump of the Juniors left behind below that?

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, the tin man said:

Duniplace mussy dalkeith Edinburgh Dunbar camelon blackburn easthouses hill of beath bonnyrigg n tranent make up the 11 of the 12 the teams applied

 

I heard at the game on Saturday that Dunbar had decided against moving next season.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

I heard at the game on Saturday that Dunbar had decided against moving next season.

I canthink see easthouses they voted against pyramid 

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Will a West of Scotland league be the tier below the Lowland League? And the rump of the Juniors left behind below that?

What I see is a WoSFL set-up, which may extend to several divisions.  The remaining clubs in the West stay with a smaller SJFA/WRJFA completely separate.

Just a guess though based on what I think will happen.

[the tin man]

A think tranent and Dunbar applied before there agms see what people say then pull out

[Robert James]

21 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I posted yesterday that I see the future as one where those clubs who want to, will continue to move over to the EoS in the East, and in the West the clubs that want to be part of the Pyramid will move into a new WoSFL for 2019/2020.

The remainder will stay Junior, and over the years will gradually move over into the Pyramid in dribs or drabs or stay where they are as a rump of clubs in various areas, happy with where they are, the set-up may even appeal to some Amateur clubs.

I just don’t foresee the SJFA moving en-masse Into the Pyramid as a body, they simply won’t get consensus (and may not be allowed anyway), and let’s remember those at the top table don’t have the enthusiasm for it after years of treating it with disdain.

An excellent summary of the current situation, and a very good prediction about the future in the East and West.

The only omission is your view/prediction about the North Region Juniors, the HFL, and the NCL.pyramid, 

[tell_me_more]

(and may not be allowed anyway)

This is one of the problems in my opinion , no leadership from the SFA if it is for the betterment of Scottish Football the EOS SOS suck it up and get on with it, the SFA have got to be the decision makers here not some minor league or its clubs that are just safeguarding their own position.

Going by population there should be a lowland league west, the West Premier is the obvious candidate to slot into that position with most of the clubs able to achieve entry level within a very short space of time.

This argument about the juniors missed the boat doesn't wash, by using that you are restricting the pyramid and displaying the same sort of burying your heads in the sand behaviour that the SJFA are being accused of.

 

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, Robert James said:

An excellent summary of the current situation, and a very good prediction about the future in the East and West.

The only omission is your view/prediction about the North Region Juniors, the HFL, and the NCL.pyramid, 

Not too up to speed on the dynamics up there. They’ll either remain part of the SJFA as the North Region, or the NRJFA reforms itself into the NoSFL out with the SJFA (the survey indicates strong support for the Pyramid). I think they would need to remain together as a body of clubs as I don’t see the HFL encouraging full integration.

In the former scenario they continue as is and clubs apply to the HFL when there’s a vacancy (Fort William /Banks O’Dee scenario could happen soon), in the latter scenario they have an affiliation with the HFL and encourage their clubs at the top end to become Licenced then at that point they can instigate pro/rel and closer ties.

No idea about the NCL really, if the NoSFL scenario played out, they could perhaps team up with Inverness/Morayshire clubs into a regional league.

[Dead]

1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Camelon will join east of scotland fa to play in football nation east of scotland cup I suspect

And give up the chance to play Falkirk, Shire, Stenny etc ? I suppose at least the Football Nations Cup gets played

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, tell_me_more said:

(and may not be allowed anyway)

This is one of the problems in my opinion , no leadership from the SFA if it is for the betterment of Scottish Football the EOS SOS suck it up and get on with it, the SFA have got to be the decision makers here not some minor league or its clubs that are just safeguarding their own position.

Going by population there should be a lowland league west, the West Premier is the obvious candidate to slot into that position with most of the clubs able to achieve entry level within a very short space of time.

This argument about the juniors missed the boat doesn't wash, by using that you are restricting the pyramid and displaying the same sort of burying your heads in the sand behaviour that the SJFA are being accused of.

 

Well you really need to deal with the reality of the situation and what the SFA and these leagues have sat and listened to over the last 5/6 years from the SJFA.

There won’t be a LL West, there may be a case for this years down the line but it won’t happen anytime soon.  The SPFL didn’t want it, maybe when the Pyramid strengthens over the next few years it could be put back on the table.

The EoS has been open to new members and now have an influx of Junior clubs.  They quite rightly point to that and will say if you are in the East and want to be part of the Pyramid then you move over like these clubs have done. It’s as easy as that.  It would be absurd to allow the SJFA to move in en-masse as a “competitor” league to the EoS in the same geographical area. I doubt the EoS will accept and I doubt the SFA will, quite rightly.

In the West it’s more straightforward, a WoSFL is formed and those clubs that want it move into it, those that don’t stay where they are.  The top clubs will have the advantage of being able to walk straight into tier 6.

It’s amazing how some are now pointing the finger at the SFA after years of derision from the SJFA towards the Pyramid.  THAT is the problem here and they will reap what they sewed, example is use of the term “minor leagues” in your post.

[patriot1]

1 hour ago, Robert James said:

Where has this information come from, or is it a "guess" based on the SJFA questionnaire ?

St Andrews haven't applied.

[Auld Heid]

48 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

I canthink see easthouses they voted against pyramid 

What's the actual story around the Camelon application -  I believe the decision was made against the wishes of many and without consultation?

[tell_me_more]

31 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Well you really need to deal with the reality of the situation and what the SFA and these leagues have sat and listened to over the last 5/6 years from the SJFA.

There won’t be a LL West, there may be a case for this years down the line but it won’t happen anytime soon.  The SPFL didn’t want it, maybe when the Pyramid strengthens over the next few years it could be put back on the table.

The EoS has been open to new members and now have an influx of Junior clubs.  They quite rightly point to that and will say if you are in the East and want to be part of the Pyramid then you move over like these clubs have done. It’s as easy as that.  It would be absurd to allow the SJFA to move in en-masse as a “competitor” league to the EoS in the same geographical area. I doubt the EoS will accept and I doubt the SFA will, quite rightly.

In the West it’s more straightforward, a WoSFL is formed and those clubs that want it move into it, those that don’t stay where they are.  The top clubs will have the advantage of being able to walk straight into tier 6.

It’s amazing how some are now pointing the finger at the SFA after years of derision from the SJFA towards the Pyramid.  THAT is the problem here and they will reap what they sewed, example is use of the term “minor leagues” in your post.

Yet again your absolute hatred and derision towards the SJFA shines through like a beacon.

The moment the West Juniors move enmasse the pyramid is strengthened and therefore meets your requirements to be put back on the table.  That is the scenario I think will happen even though the vote is split at the moment,  we have the scenario of what is happening in the East and how it has panned out leaving a total chaotic  set up for teams of a similar level, with teams desperate to jump in at the highest level possible it is a shambles, the West teams know that and should avoid it at all costs. A massive  input of new teams means restructuring needs looked at and a Lowland League West is the solution. Fits in with population densities  number of teams etc etc

And yes the SOS and EOS are minor leagues as are the Junior Leagues what else are they if they are not minor leagues? That is reality not derision.
 

Edited April 3, 2018 by tell_me_more
spelling

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, tell_me_more said:

Yet again your absolute hatred and derision towards the SJFA shines through like a beacon.

You must be another blazer.  Are you saying that TJ and Co have not stood up and derided the Pyramid for years?   The fact is, they have and now they have to do a U turn and appeal to the SFA to listen to their demands. Aye right oh.

Quote

The moment the West Juniors move enmasse the pyramid is strengthened and therefore meets your requirements to be put back on the table.  That is the scenario I think will happen even though the vote is split at the moment,  we have the scenario of what is happening in the East and how it has panned out leaving a total chaotic  set up for teams of a similar level, with teams desperate to jump in at the highest level possible it is a shambles, the West teams know that and should avoid it at all costs. A massive  input of new teams means restructuring needs looked at and a Lowland League West is the solution. Fits in with population densities  number of teams etc etc

The situation is not "a shambles", you may want to portray it as such to suit your own agenda, but as things stand the SJFA are not moving into the Pyramid, and definitely not for next season and there is absolutely no guarantee that they can deliver it at all, therefore clubs in the East have the option of leaving. It's as simple as that.  If there is any shambles, it's of the SJFA's own making and many clubs are fed up of it.  You keep clinging to a LL West, you'll be clinging on for a while.

Quote

And yes the SOS and EOS are minor leagues as are the Junior Leagues what else are they if they are not minor leagues? That is reality not derision.
 

Nice backtracking.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Burnie_man