Burnie_man Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: I think they should as well. Especially as the Amateur Cup winners & the Lowland Cup Winner's Cup winners get in these days. I was mentioning them not getting Scottish Cup entry as more of a sign of how the league is regarded by the SFA (it's not). So it shouldn't be a direct feeder to the HL as it is not strong enough or geographically diverse enough. Tier 5 = Highland League Tier 6 = NoSFL Tier 7 = NCL (Highland District), Grampian District, Tayside District or Tier 5 = Highland League Tier 6 = NoSFL Premier Tier 7 = NoSFL West, NoSFL East Tier 8 = NCL (Highland District), Grampian District, Tayside District Tier 5 = Highland League Tier 6 = NoSFL Premier Tier 7 = NoSFL West (Inverness/Moray), NoSFL East (Aberdeenshire), NOSFL South (Tayside/Perthshire) Tier 8 = NCL, NoSFL East 2, NoSFL South 2 Specifically for the NCL, there shouldn't me mandatory promotion/relegation to the NoSFL West due to the distances involved. Maybe a system where the Champions can be promoted to the NoSFL West if they wanted to, but no mandatory relegation for non-NCL origin clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Just now, Burnie_man said: Tier 5 = Highland League Tier 6 = NoSFL Premier Tier 7 = NoSFL West (Inverness/Moray), NoSFL East (Aberdeenshire), NOSFL South (Tayside/Perthshire) Tier 8 = NCL, NoSFL East 2, NoSFL South 2 Specifically for the NCL, there shouldn't me mandatory promotion/relegation to the NoSFL West due to the distances involved. Maybe a system where the Champions can be promoted to the NoSFL West if they wanted to, but no mandatory relegation for non-NCL origin clubs. Whatever can be done to encourage the North of Tay clubs to integrate into the Highland League area i'll take. It was mentioned in either this or the 'where did all go wrong' thread that when the Superleagues were being set up, one of the proposals was for the Tayside clubs to go into the North Region. I can understand the reasons for preferring to be in the East Region, but the 3 Regions would of been a bit more balanced if that proposal has passed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Whatever can be done to encourage the North of Tay clubs to integrate into the Highland League area i'll take. It was mentioned in either this or the 'where did all go wrong' thread that when the Superleagues were being set up, one of the proposals was for the Tayside clubs to go into the North Region. I can understand the reasons for preferring to be in the East Region, but the 3 Regions would of been a bit more balanced if that proposal has passed. I don't see the Tayside clubs getting talked round on that one anytime soon for much the same reasons that no West club has shown the slightest interest in joining the SoS league - the HFL covers a completely different part of the country. Looking at things pragmatically it's unlikely that any Dundee club will see their future in a league where their most local derby will be Inverurie. Drawing the HL/LL boundary at the Tay rather than up at Brechin or Montrose was a mistake which hopefully will be rectified- it's a shame as a lot of the Tayside clubs have a lot to offer the pyramid, but they're currently geographically in no man's land much as the West clubs are at the moment. Edited May 7, 2018 by Hillonearth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: I don't see the Tayside clubs getting talked round on that one anytime soon for much the same reasons that no West club has shown the slightest interest in joining the SoS league - the HFL covers a completely different part of the country. Looking at things pragmatically it's unlikely that any Dundee club will see their future where their most local derby will be Inverurie, Drawing the HL/LL at the Tay rather than up at Brechin or Montrose was a mistake which hopefully will be rectified- it's a shame as a lot of the Tayside clubs have a lot to offer the pyramid, but they're currently geographically in no man's land much as the West clubs are at the moment. Dundee to Aberdeen is little different from Dundee to Edinburgh/Lothians, Dundee to Peterhead is the same as Dundee to Dunbar. The Aberdeen by-pass would also presumably improve things. Dundee, Brechin, Kirriemuir, Forfar, Arbroath etc being in the same region as Eyemouth, Hawick, Peebles, Berwick, Coldstream, Selkirk, Gala etc makes no sense. Montrose Roselea have of course moved to the North Region recently. There is no solid case for them being in either East or North as far as the SJFA set-up is concerned, and with them largely falling north of the HFL area dividing line then it may be sensible for them to make that switch, given the density of clubs already operating in Fife, Lothians, Edinburgh and Borders. Edited May 7, 2018 by Burnie_man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: I don't see the Tayside clubs getting talked round on that one anytime soon for much the same reasons that no West club has shown the slightest interest in joining the SoS league - the HFL covers a completely different part of the country. Looking at things pragmatically it's unlikely that any Dundee club will see their future in a league where their most local derby will be Inverurie. Drawing the HL/LL boundary at the Tay rather than up at Brechin or Montrose was a mistake which hopefully will be rectified- it's a shame as a lot of the Tayside clubs have a lot to offer the pyramid, but they're currently geographically in no man's land much as the West clubs are at the moment. I'm not convinced that the HL/LL boundary will be easily rectified, as it seems to have been a rather intentional decision by the likes of the SPFL. Its a decision that can skew the HL over time into more of a Northeastern league and would likely wittle down the more extreme trips. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Dundee to Aberdeen is little different from Dundee to Edinburgh/Lothians, Dundee to Peterhead is the same as Dundee to Dunbar. The Aberdeen by-pass would also presumably improve things. Dundee, Brechin, Kirriemuir, Forfar, Arbroath etc being in the same region as Eyemouth, Hawick, Peebles, Berwick, Coldstream, Selkirk, Gala etc makes no sense. Montrose Roselea have of course moved to the North Region recently. There is no solid case for them being in either East or North as far as the SJFA set-up is concerned, and with them largely falling north of the HFL area dividing line then it may be sensible for them to make that switch, given the density of clubs already operating in Fife, Lothians, Edinburgh and Borders. 16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Dundee to Aberdeen is little different from Dundee to Edinburgh/Lothians, Dundee to Peterhead is the same as Dundee to Dunbar. The Aberdeen by-pass would also presumably improve things. Dundee, Brechin, Kirriemuir, Forfar, Arbroath etc being in the same region as Eyemouth, Hawick, Peebles, Berwick, Coldstream, Selkirk, Gala etc makes no sense. Montrose Roselea have of course moved to the North Region recently. There is no solid case for them being in either East or North as far as the SJFA set-up is concerned, and with them largely falling north of the HFL area dividing line then it may be sensible for them to make that switch, given the density of clubs already operating in Fife, Lothians, Edinburgh and Borders. It may well be that it's more psychological than geographical but if I was involved with a Dundee club I think I'd baulk when I saw a map of the current HFL sides largely strung out along the cost from Fraserburgh to Inverness . Things are falling into place as regards the pyramid, but in this case I think it'll be a tough sell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 56 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: I think they should as well. Especially as the Amateur Cup winners & the Lowland Cup Winner's Cup winners get in these days. I was mentioning them not getting Scottish Cup entry as more of a sign of how the league is regarded by the SFA (it's not). So it shouldn't be a direct feeder to the HL as it is not strong enough or geographically diverse enough. Tier 5 = Highland League Tier 6 = NoSFL Tier 7 = NCL (Highland District), Grampian District, Tayside District or Tier 5 = Highland League Tier 6 = NoSFL Premier Tier 7 = NoSFL West, NoSFL East Tier 8 = NCL (Highland District), Grampian District, Tayside District Your 1st proposal is better as the NCL playing standard is as good as, if not better than, the North Region Junior 2nd divisions tier IMO, as are the attendances . Hence tier 7 would give parity. There are not enough Junior/NCL clubs to extend to an 8th tier, as Tier 7 would have to be relatively local, for travel and winter weather reasons (as it is at present in the NR). Tayside and a few Aberdeenshire clubs would dominate Tier 6. Promotion from Tier 7 to 6, should be voluntary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: It may well be that it's more psychological than geographical but if I was involved with a Dundee club I think I'd baulk when I saw a map of the current HFL sides largely strung out along the cost from Fraserburgh to Inverness . Things are falling into place as regards the pyramid, but in this case I think it'll be a tough sell. Agree, it's one of the areas that is going to cause problems with TJ's assertion that the SJFA will enter at "tier 6 minimum". I would guess that the SPFL would need to be consulted on any boundary changes as at the moment the likes of Montrose, Arbroath, Brechin and Forfar drop into the HFL should the worst ever happen, they might well be content with that as it has been the case since League 2 opened up to relegation and Montrose have flirted with that very eventuality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Just now, Hillonearth said: It may well be that it's more psychological than geographical but if I was involved with a Dundee club I think I'd baulk when I saw a map of the current HFL sides largely strung out along the cost from Fraserburgh to Inverness . Things are falling into place as regards the pyramid, but in this case I think it'll be a tough sell. Sure but if the alternative is the LL, the Tayside clubs would currently have three trips to the Dumfries area and another two to the Borders. Dundee to Gretna is further than all of the HL clubs bar Brora and Wick. Of course that could change with more Junior clubs being promoted into the LL, but the same could happen with the HL. Merging the North of Tay clubs with the North Juniors seems like the easiest way to get them into the pyramid. The North Superleague clubs are mostly around Aberdeen, which is the same as going to Edinburgh for Tayside clubs. If they win the tier 6 league then they could always choose not to go up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Robert James said: Your 1st proposal is better as the NCL playing standard is as good as, if not better than, the North Region Junior 2nd divisions tier IMO, as are the attendances . Hence tier 7 would give parity. There are not enough Junior/NCL clubs to extend to an 8th tier, as Tier 7 would have to be relatively local, for travel and winter weather reasons (as it is at present in the NR). Tayside and a few Aberdeenshire clubs would dominate Tier 6. Promotion from Tier 7 to 6, should be voluntary. Knew the second one was stretching the numbers a bit. Neither's my preference to be honest. My real preference at Tier 6 would be Highland West & Highland East with those leagues evolving from a 1st year of basically being the North Superleague and the newly formed league by the North of Tay East Juniors. I just see a single NoSFL at Tier 6 being more likely to happen at this point as it will be too much of a struggle to get the North of Tay East Juniors involved in the Highland area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Ginaro said: Sure but if the alternative is the LL, the Tayside clubs would currently have three trips to the Dumfries area and another two to the Borders. Dundee to Gretna is further than all of the HL clubs bar Brora and Wick. Of course that could change with more Junior clubs being promoted into the LL, but the same could happen with the HL. Merging the North of Tay clubs with the North Juniors seems like the easiest way to get them into the pyramid. The North Superleague clubs are mostly around Aberdeen, which is the same as going to Edinburgh for Tayside clubs. If they win the tier 6 league then they could always choose not to go up. Would the East Juniors be pleased or sorry if the Tayside/Perth clubs were transferred to the North, as per the SFA boundary ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Robert James said: Would the East Juniors be pleased or sorry if the Tayside/Perth clubs were transferred to the North, as per the SFA boundary ? Well they surely wouldn't be in either the EoS or a proposed tier 6 Junior league - don't see how you can have teams above the boundary in a tier 6 league which feeds into the Lowland League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Ginaro said: Well they surely wouldn't be in either the EoS or a proposed tier 6 Junior league - don't see how you can have teams above the boundary in a tier 6 league which feeds into the Lowland League. Assuming the boundary does not get reviewed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Tynieness said: Seems to be tier 5 and up that you have to reinstate.... That's what falls under the professional game board. People still talk about the senior grade, but it's dated terminology. The juniors, EoS and SoS all fall under the non-professional game board along with the amateur, welfare and youth FAs. https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/organisation/strategy-structure/who-we-are/board-committees/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: That's what falls under the professional game board. People still talk about the senior grade, but it's dated terminology. The juniors, EoS and SoS all fall under the non-professional game board along with the amateur, welfare and youth FAs. https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/organisation/strategy-structure/who-we-are/board-committees/ I still need someone to explain to me why the LL and HFL are deemed "professional", but EoS, SoS and SJFA are deemed "non-professional" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: I still need someone to explain to me why the LL and HFL are deemed "professional", but EoS, SoS and SJFA are deemed "non-professional" Best guess would be the direct link between the SPFL/HL/LL due to promotion and relegation matters. Also that both the HL & LL set licencing as a requirement so all their membership are fully paid up members of the SFA. While the EoS/SoS etc have a mix of licenced/non-licenced and have to represent those differing interests. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriot1 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 15 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: What talk is that along lines of? Anniston have sold their ground for housing and will be moving into a new ground with an artificial pitch the season after next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, patriot1 said: Anniston have sold their ground for housing and will be moving into a new ground with an artificial pitch the season after next. This old plan resurrected? http://www2.midlothian.gov.uk/Council/Meetings/Public/Planning Committee/20091013/CM_PC_20091013_07_2.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 15 hours ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Talbot would be running about with all those ridiculous stars around their badge for winning something that no longer exists Do you slag off Aberdeen for the star on their shirt for the trophy they won that no longer exists? That they earned by beating, among others, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid? Everyone in non-league football, senior or junior, ought to look up to Auchinleck Talbot. They've earned it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, GordonS said: Do you slag off Aberdeen for the star on their shirt for the trophy they won that no longer exists? That they earned by beating, among others, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid? Everyone in non-league football, senior or junior, ought to look up to Auchinleck Talbot. They've earned it. Is there not a wee bit of a difference between a minor bauble competed for by a mix of part-time and effectively amateur teams from a single country vs. major european trophies...? Edited May 8, 2018 by cmontheloknow 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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