Junior football, what is the future?

[the rambler]

So any proposal made by West SJFA will be rejected and for all West Region Junior Clubs to join the Pyramid they all individually need to apply to WOSFL. 

[LongTimeLurker]

What could have happened is that the west region holds an EGM and votes to leave the SJFA. Under that scenario it might have been possible to keep it intact.

[FairWeatherFan]

24 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What could have happened is that the west region holds an EGM and votes to leave the SJFA. Under that scenario it might have been possible to keep it intact.

At this point I don't think even that would have worked, as the LL/EoS want to allow for clubs outwith the SJFA to apply to enter. Which you can understand since quite a few of their members have come from backgrounds outside the junior game. The existing 16-16-16-15 format that the West Region has doesn't feel too open to entry .

[parkcircus]

44 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What could have happened is that the west region holds an EGM and votes to leave the SJFA. Under that scenario it might have been possible to keep it intact.

Still no EGM, couple of emails, that’s been it.

[parkcircus]

1 hour ago, the rambler said:

West Region Clubs want to join the Pyramid. West Region SJFA propose all Clubs move over en bloc. Lowland reject the proposal but meanwhile encourage the same Clubs to join WOSFL. 

The changes in the East were very divisive and I hoped that lessons could be learned and all West Clubs would join the Pyramid at the same time.

I am trying to understand the stumbling blocks and why they can't be negotiated and overcome. 

Is it simply that LL want to run the WOSFL without any of the administrators currently running the West Juniors. Do the LL have the manpower to do this? 

 

 

12 months ago the West Region didn’t have a fixture list and was run by a guy that told clubs to “f**k off” when they asked for a possible fixture change, this General Secretary was then in the papers for racism and yet the Region didn’t act, allowing him to decide to resign.

Why would an other organisation what this attached to them?

The stumbling blocks were the resistance to change on all fronts.

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 hours ago, wow-wee said:

I've read it but don t have it to put online

Did some one print it and show it to you?

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 hours ago, G4Mac said:

What is actually going on?

Legal action to stop clubs applying for a new league and keep them in the juniors?

Do they seriously think any court kn the land will take this on.

Just wow

The people concerned have struggled with SFA license criteria, understanding legal process might be challenging.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

38 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

this General Secretary was then in the papers for racism and yet the Region didn’t act, allowing him to decide to resign.

Bit of an aside but this, to be fair, is quite common. Even if yer 99% certain someone saying something as stupid as that is grounds of termination it's better to politely request a resignation to cover yer bum incase of an unfair dismissal claim.

[Marten]

Let's be clear, it was early 2000's (2003 if I'm correct) that TJ got a mandate from the clubs to negotiate pyramid access. That was before the LL even existed. At that point the SJFA could (outside HL territory) pretty much have put a superdooper league at tier 5 as long as some EOS/SOS clubs were invited, with the remainder of the EOS/SOS feeding into the ERJFA / WRJFA at some point.

When the LL was formed, the SJFA were invited to provide clubs for it. If they'd have said yes, they would have been in a great position to control the pyramid from tier 6 down, probably swallowing up the remainder of EOS & SOS in the process. SJFA said no.

After the LL was formed and the SJFA didn't provide clubs, they could still have controlled the pyramid from tier 6 downwards if they'd have played it right, the likes of Kelty pushed them to do precisely that. That could have been done until after Kelty switched to the EOS, when the likes of Dalkeith were still pushing for a solution within the SJFA. SJFA sat on their hands.

After the ERJFA exodus SJFA suddenly did want to talk about the "all in" approach, ignoring the EOS & HL/LL boundary, coming up with a "solution" that had no chance of working. As an alternative it was suggested that the WRJFA would move as a bloc, whilst finding a solution for the East/Tayside. SJFA said no.

This season "option Z" suddenly became the recommended option to WRJFA clubs to vote for. An option that had no chance of ever making it, especially as the SPFL would have to agree to both a boundary change and 3 instead of 2 tier 5 feeders. The option of the West moving in en bloc was not recommended and rejected.

How can anyone now be surprised that the LL are fed up with it and don't want the SJFA involved anymore? And now they suddenly scream about the possibility of the West moving in from tier 6 downwards being rejected, whilst until recently they never wanted it. 

Laughable

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Bit of an aside but this, to be fair, is quite common. Even if yer 99% certain someone saying something as stupid as that is grounds of termination it's better to politely request a resignation to cover yer bum incase of an unfair dismissal claim.

He's 80odd, just tell him he'd resigned.

[theesel1994]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The west juniors join en masse as a feeder league keeping their own cups and not entering the south challenge etc.

In other words, back to option W that only Largs were in favour of. The clubs should have "approved" at the first meeting what they thought was best for their clubs not what the Management Committee recommended they "approve."

EDIT : Anyone know where I can get an "I told you so" tee shirt?

Edited February 29, 2020 by theesel1994

[Beenzon-Toste]

Bit of an aside but this, to be fair, is quite common. Even if yer 99% certain someone saying something as stupid as that is grounds of termination it's better to politely request a resignation to cover yer bum incase of an unfair dismissal claim.

The WRSJFA did act. They just didn't use P&B to publicize it and that's what upsets the haters on here. SR said he was apologetic and would consider his future. WRSJFA then told him of his options. Resign or be resigned. He resigned.

[GordonS]

 

12 hours ago, the rambler said:

The changes in the East were very divisive

 

"Divisive" is what people complain about when a change happens or is suggested, they just don't like it and wish it would all go away.

The only reason clubs ended up leaving the Juniors was because they were fed up being held back by a bunch of dinosaurs. We could all have moved into the pyramid but that was clearly not going to be allowed to happen.

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by GordonS

[Junior Pub League]

12 minutes ago, Marten said:

When the LL was formed, the SJFA were invited to provide clubs for it. If they'd have said yes, they would have been in a great position to control the pyramid from tier 6 down, probably swallowing up the remainder of EOS & SOS in the process. SJFA said no.

Because of the blinkered mentality from those at the top and indeed from some clubs of the "grade" being the most important thing.

Ironically all they have done, in trying to ensure the survival of the concept of different "grades", is actually stick a stake straight through the heart of the thing they were trying to save.

Football is football, the entire "grade" concept belonged in the bin about 100 years ago  but somehow despite the world falling out from under their feet over the last decade or so, and especially since Kelty made the move (and lets never forget the mince that was thrown at them from Floor 6 and the acolytes), all that has happened has been pitiful attempts to save the "grade" instead of doing what is best for the clubs.

It'll be a great day come August when the likes of Auchinleck play their first ever senior league game and leave behind the Junior baggage.

[Junior Pub League]

4 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

 the haters on here. 

Delicious salty salty tears from the "grade" dinosaurs.

Keep them coming.

[Doonhamer1969]

23 minutes ago, Marten said:

Let's be clear, it was early 2000's (2003 if I'm correct) that TJ got a mandate from the clubs to negotiate pyramid access. That was before the LL even existed. At that point the SJFA could (outside HL territory) pretty much have put a superdooper league at tier 5 as long as some EOS/SOS clubs were invited, with the remainder of the EOS/SOS feeding into the ERJFA / WRJFA at some point.

When the LL was formed, the SJFA were invited to provide clubs for it. If they'd have said yes, they would have been in a great position to control the pyramid from tier 6 down, probably swallowing up the remainder of EOS & SOS in the process. SJFA said no.

After the LL was formed and the SJFA didn't provide clubs, they could still have controlled the pyramid from tier 6 downwards if they'd have played it right, the likes of Kelty pushed them to do precisely that. That could have been done until after Kelty switched to the EOS, when the likes of Dalkeith were still pushing for a solution within the SJFA. SJFA sat on their hands.

After the ERJFA exodus SJFA suddenly did want to talk about the "all in" approach, ignoring the EOS & HL/LL boundary, coming up with a "solution" that had no chance of working. As an alternative it was suggested that the WRJFA would move as a bloc, whilst finding a solution for the East/Tayside. SJFA said no.

This season "option Z" suddenly became the recommended option to WRJFA clubs to vote for. An option that had no chance of ever making it, especially as the SPFL would have to agree to both a boundary change and 3 instead of 2 tier 5 feeders. The option of the West moving in en bloc was not recommended and rejected.

How can anyone now be surprised that the LL are fed up with it and don't want the SJFA involved anymore? And now they suddenly scream about the possibility of the West moving in from tier 6 downwards being rejected, whilst until recently they never wanted it. 

Laughable

Exactly.

17 years of pi**ing about.

Get on with the WoS and get it sorted !

[Burnie_man]

25 minutes ago, Marten said:

Let's be clear, it was early 2000's (2003 if I'm correct) that TJ got a mandate from the clubs to negotiate pyramid access. That was before the LL even existed. At that point the SJFA could (outside HL territory) pretty much have put a superdooper league at tier 5 as long as some EOS/SOS clubs were invited, with the remainder of the EOS/SOS feeding into the ERJFA / WRJFA at some point.

When the LL was formed, the SJFA were invited to provide clubs for it. If they'd have said yes, they would have been in a great position to control the pyramid from tier 6 down, probably swallowing up the remainder of EOS & SOS in the process. SJFA said no.

After the LL was formed and the SJFA didn't provide clubs, they could still have controlled the pyramid from tier 6 downwards if they'd have played it right, the likes of Kelty pushed them to do precisely that. That could have been done until after Kelty switched to the EOS, when the likes of Dalkeith were still pushing for a solution within the SJFA. SJFA sat on their hands.

After the ERJFA exodus SJFA suddenly did want to talk about the "all in" approach, ignoring the EOS & HL/LL boundary, coming up with a "solution" that had no chance of working. As an alternative it was suggested that the WRJFA would move as a bloc, whilst finding a solution for the East/Tayside. SJFA said no.

This season "option Z" suddenly became the recommended option to WRJFA clubs to vote for. An option that had no chance of ever making it, especially as the SPFL would have to agree to both a boundary change and 3 instead of 2 tier 5 feeders. The option of the West moving in en bloc was not recommended and rejected.

How can anyone now be surprised that the LL are fed up with it and don't want the SJFA involved anymore? And now they suddenly scream about the possibility of the West moving in from tier 6 downwards being rejected, whilst until recently they never wanted it. 

Laughable

 

10 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Contrary to some opinion the SJFA have throughout pyramid discussions played a proactive approach within the Pyramid Working Group (PWG),

West Junior F.A

You're such a liar Marten

[Doonhamer1969]

11 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

In other words, back to option W that only Largs were in favour of. The clubs should have "approved" at the first meeting what they thought was best for their clubs not what the Management Committee recommended they "approve."

EDIT : Anyone know where I can get an "I told you so" tee shirt?

 

[Junior Pub League]

4 minutes ago, GordonS said:

"Divisive" is what people complain about when a change happens or is suggested, they just don't like it and wish it would ask go away.

The only reason clubs ended up leaving the Juniors was because they were fed up being held back by a bunch of dinosaurs. We could all have moved into the pyramid but that was clearly not going to be allowed to happen.

 

What would be interesting to know is the average age of the committees of the East clubs that moved (and Dunipace) against the average age of the committees of those that refused to move.

Did Blackburn have a committee that's significantly younger than the likes of Armadale for example?

Were those who grew up on Junior crowds in the double / low triple figure era or who were new to the clubs but who could see the limited options available in the Junior leagues more open to change than those who have been involved since the days of the old King?

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

Age probably is a factor, but they existed in a vacuum for too long and couldn't understand that things were changing elsewhere. When they engaged they found themselves out thought by the representatives of other organisations.

(I don't include Maxwell and Petrie in the group who out thought anyone.)