SilverWolfe Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 How would you do that though? You thinking of an A-League style playoff ending or something? Pretty much, US style playoffs is the only answer imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 As a rule, I had playoffs deciding things that you've gone through a whole season to decide, but if by some chance it'd actually help, I think I'd be quite content to sit back and accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWolfe Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 I'd have gate sharing and I'd have all merchandising income pooled and distributed evenly between 42 clubs, and the same thing would happen to income generated from clubs participating in Europe and from broadcasting deals. I've a feeling you wouldn't like it Tony. I wouldn't be completely against it but I think you'd have a hard time trying to convince the plcs to take that idea to their shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWolfe Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 As a rule, I had playoffs deciding things that you've gone through a whole season to decide, but if by some chance it'd actually help, I think I'd be quite content to sit back and accept it. We are a very nostalgic nation when it comes to football so for that reason it would never happen. Play offs would exponentially increase the chances of another team winning the league, the one thing we all want, but no one would want it simply because it's not how we've ever done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tartantony said: 7 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: I'd have gate sharing and I'd have all merchandising income pooled and distributed evenly between 42 clubs, and the same thing would happen to income generated from clubs participating in Europe and from broadcasting deals. I've a feeling you wouldn't like it Tony. I wouldn't be completely against it but I think you'd have a hard time trying to convince the plcs to take that idea to their shareholders. Well obviously, there's no chance of it being accepted by those in powerful positions who benefit from the existing imbalance. That's why I don't pretend that piddling little measures or adjustments would see the desired outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWolfe Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Well obviously, there's no chance of it being accepted by those in powerful positions who benefit from the existing imbalance. That's why I don't pretend that piddling little measures or adjustments would see the desired outcomes. So let's do nothing? Keep the status quo and keep losing our own fanbase to that soulless league down south? Like you, I don't care about overseas or English impressions of our game but i do care very much about losing our own fans to those markets. There are things that can be done to attract those fans and their money back to Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Losing fans to England? Despite crowds being up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Points made in the last few pages: Some of the other nations cited get bigger TV deals as they show every game spread over the whole weekend. Do Scottish fans watch Danish, Greek, Belgian or Turkish football if it's exciting? What about Austrian or Czech football? How about Israeli football? There's absolutely zero chance Celtic could agree to settle the title by knockout playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWolfe Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Losing fans to England? Despite crowds being up? It's not just about matchday crowds though is it? We have no issue with our crowds, they are superb.TV viewing figures impact the broadcasting revenue and sponsorship potential. This is where we have effectively lost an entire generation of fans and will continue to lose fans as they choose to tune into the EPL over Scottish football. It's not the attending fans we need to worry about, it's the general armchair football fans that we need to be targeting. Give them a reason to watch Scottish football over Stoke v West Brom and we get the increased revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubo_blaha Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 It's not just about matchday crowds though is it? We have no issue with our crowds, they are superb.TV viewing figures impact the broadcasting revenue and sponsorship potential. This is where we have effectively lost an entire generation of fans and will continue to lose fans as they choose to tune into the EPL over Scottish football. It's not the attending fans we need to worry about, it's the general armchair football fans that we need to be targeting. Give them a reason to watch Scottish football over Stoke v West Brom and we get the increased revenues. Off topic but any “lost generation” of fans generally won’t be watching English football on TV, and if they are they certainly won’t be paying for it. Young people are increasingly consuming football via betting and FIFA instead of paying to watch full games on tv or in person. This is a problem facing leagues across the globe, not just Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 15 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: There's absolutely zero chance Celtic could agree to settle the title by knockout playoffs. This is the crux. Any playoff title would have to be apart from the ‘best team over the course of the season’ title because there’s no way Celtic would give up the key to the Magic Kingdom based on a 2-round playoff after a 38 game, 9-month slog. Having said that, the attraction of playoffs is obvious...but at the same time a bit of a paradox. IMO. I can fully understand why it would make things more interesting but I don’t think, in a single league table, it would add a single TV viewer (or fan through the gate) until the sharp end of the season. Come the last few games of the ‘regular’ season if there are games between the teams vying for those playoff spots then you’ll get increased interest and more people watching. For the playoffs themselves, there would be full house signs and possibly massive TV interest. That might be good enough and really no more than you could hope for with that set-up. There’s virtually no way of attracting substantially more fans other than 1) a winning team (which applies without playoffs and very few teams) or 2) the sort of debt creating hype we saw in the late 90s/early 2000s (which no one wants to see again). Over the last 5 years, 8 different teams would have been involved in a Final-Four playoff; even if The Rangers had not been “making the journey” 7 different teams would have had a crack at it. Of course, whether Plod would like to see yet another Celtic-Rangers game is a different kettle of fish entirely, particularly one that could decide the title/a title. The bottom line is, though, that Scottish football is run by and for conservatives. Playoffs would cause heads to explode all over the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Tbf it's not unique to Scotland. There isn't a league in Europe using title playoffs (except San Marino but they haven't a single division). There'd also be a risk that in bringing the league title down to Semi-Finals and a Final you'd simultaneously render more of the regular season less important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Just now, HibeeJibee said: Tbf it's not unique to Scotland. There isn't a league in Europe using title playoffs (except San Marino but they haven't a single division). There'd also be a risk that in bringing the league title down to Semi-Finals and a Final you'd simultaneously render more of the regular season less important. No, that's true but look at the bile The Split causes because it isn't a "proper league". Definitely a lot of conservatives out there. (although for all I know all those European nations that have splits of one kind or another maybe have the exact same hostility thrown at them) That's why I think the UCL spot would still have to go to the best team over the course of the season...and then there'd be a call for the No 1 EL spot to be treated likewise because you-know-who...and then you're heading towards the bizarre Belgian/Danish playoff for a single EL spot which, frankly, I would probably be howling about as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 17 hours ago, Tartantony said: Under the current set up you're likely spot on and probably also spot on that it could never be completely even, however, there are ways to bridge the gap both financially and competitively. For me, far too many people concentrate on trying to immediately increase revenue rather than on the thing that is most important, competition.Change the competition to increase the chances of other teams winning the league and the revenue will naturally follow. Especially if marketed correctly. 17 hours ago, Randy Giles said: How would you do that though? You thinking of an A-League style playoff ending or something? A straight-forward way to do it would be to continue playing league fixtures during international breaks, so that the teams who have the money to field internationalists at any other time would face a 'natural' handicap of their best players being unavailable for a few weeks of the season. This would allow the teams from less well-funded clubs a better chance to compete. It would also help to develop the youngsters who would play in the absence of the internationalists. This may or may not be possible in a regular winter season, but may work in a summer season where some countries play on whilst World Cups and Euros are happening. A different possibility for changing the competition to increase other teams' chances of winning the league would be to use 2 points for a win, but with a bonus point being awarded for defeating a team placed above you in the league table (i.e. 3 points for a win against someone placed above you in the league). It would prevent a runaway leader since the top team could only ever gain 2 points for a win and would allow teams to bunch up at the top since those below could earn 3 points for a win, depending upon who they were playing, with every team that takes over at the top immediately facing the handicap of only being able to earn 2 points for a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 If games were played at the same time as the international games then teams would just refuse to release their players to their respective international squads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWolfe Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 A straight-forward way to do it would be to continue playing league fixtures during international breaks, so that the teams who have the money to field internationalists at any other time would face a 'natural' handicap of their best players being unavailable for a few weeks of the season. This would allow the teams from less well-funded clubs a better chance to compete. It would also help to develop the youngsters who would play in the absence of the internationalists. This may or may not be possible in a regular winter season, but may work in a summer season where some countries play on whilst World Cups and Euros are happening. A different possibility for changing the competition to increase other teams' chances of winning the league would be to use 2 points for a win, but with a bonus point being awarded for defeating a team placed above you in the league table (i.e. 3 points for a win against someone placed above you in the league). It would prevent a runaway leader since the top team could only ever gain 2 points for a win and would allow teams to bunch up at the top since those below could earn 3 points for a win, depending upon who they were playing, with every team that takes over at the top immediately facing the handicap of only being able to earn 2 points for a win. I know it's all about ideas but that's all a bit mental. We don't need to go all out complicated, just keep it simple. If it can't be playoffs then at least a bigger league where teams only play each other twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Certainly seems like a good idea to cause potential splits between club and country. Can't see how that could possibly go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 The idea of fewer points being available to higher placed sides does actually have a certain appeal, but to be honest, there shouldn't be any need for such gimmickry. Neither should play offs be necessary. Leagues should be about the long haul, while cups provide the sprints. What we need is a far far greater degree of regulation to control the access to resources that individual clubs can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Just now, Monkey Tennis said: The idea of fewer points being available to higher placed sides does actually have a certain appeal, but to be honest, there shouldn't be any need for such gimmickry. Neither should play offs be necessary. Leagues should be about the long haul, while cups provide the sprints. What we need is a far far greater degree of regulation to control the access to resources that individual clubs can have. Which will never happen as from the very top of the world game downwards, there'd need to be an unrealistically dramatic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Randy Giles said: Which will never happen as from the very top of the world game downwards, there'd need to be an unrealistically dramatic change. I didn't say that it was on the cards; just that it was necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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