Project Brave rumbles on..

[Jacky1990]

23 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

We have clubs in the top flight that take less than 3,000 fans to some games. We have guaranteed champions. Who exactly would want to pay for a league where there's a fight for top six but not the champions? Boring, predictable and poor quality. The TV deals we get are pretty much spot on. 

You think Scottish football is boring? Boring in terms of who the champions will be, yes, but its anything but boring elsewhere.  Generally 1/3 of the league in a relegation fight, another 5-6 teams battling for top 6 and the European places, ultra-competitive Championship, which in recent times has included big teams like Hearts, Hibs and Dundee Utd and generally a whole load of bat-shit stuff on a weekly basis (see Chronicle of Banter years). So is Scottish football boring?....Absolutely not.

Predictable? Yes, Celtic will likely win the league. But try putting a coupon on all 6 top flight games this weekend and see how you get on. Who would have predicted how much the newco would struggle? Or teams like Ross County and Hamilton establishing themselves in the Premiership? So is Scottish football predictable?....Only if you are a moron who cant look beyond the champions elect.

Poor quality? Frankly, yes. Scottish football isnt great quality but why does that make it any less entertaining? Have you watched some of Man Utd big away games recently? Utter soul destroying....but they have a lot of quality so you'd say that its actually a good thing? Some of the most entertaining games ive watched on BT Sport recently have been from the National League or early round FA Cup matches down south. Those games are hardly full of top class players, but that almost makes it more entertaining.  Its not like you go to the cinema to see great acting, you go to watch an entertaining film.  So is Scottish football low on quality?.....Yes, but that has absolutely no bearing on whether it is entertaining or not.

Its time we talked about the good things in our game rather than beat it down because of the one or two negatives. 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

Point one Doncaster is an absolute weapon, just not in this situation. Outwith anyones control. 

Point two, as a country football is one of the biggest aspects of our culture. Okay with our size as a nation we'll never be a La Liga but the Scottish league could be a lot better than it is if it was remotely exciting. Two champions in 35 years? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Back to the Hungarian league, or the Austrian one perhaps.

Without Googling, how many champions have they had over a similar period?

No, I've no idea either, because despite being into football, I don't care how the domestic game is in these smallish countries with a strong historic football pedigree.  

My point is, that having more sides win the title, wouldn't have this vast international appeal, that you seem to think eludes us currently due to the lack of such a thing.

 

[Bazil85]

38 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

You think Scottish football is boring? Boring in terms of who the champions will be, yes, but its anything but boring elsewhere.  Generally 1/3 of the league in a relegation fight, another 5-6 teams battling for top 6 and the European places, ultra-competitive Championship, which in recent times has included big teams like Hearts, Hibs and Dundee Utd and generally a whole load of bat-shit stuff on a weekly basis (see Chronicle of Banter years). So is Scottish football boring?....Absolutely not.

Predictable? Yes, Celtic will likely win the league. But try putting a coupon on all 6 top flight games this weekend and see how you get on. Who would have predicted how much the newco would struggle? Or teams like Ross County and Hamilton establishing themselves in the Premiership? So is Scottish football predictable?....Only if you are a moron who cant look beyond the champions elect.

Poor quality? Frankly, yes. Scottish football isnt great quality but why does that make it any less entertaining? Have you watched some of Man Utd big away games recently? Utter soul destroying....but they have a lot of quality so you'd say that its actually a good thing? Some of the most entertaining games ive watched on BT Sport recently have been from the National League or early round FA Cup matches down south. Those games are hardly full of top class players, but that almost makes it more entertaining.  Its not like you go to the cinema to see great acting, you go to watch an entertaining film.  So is Scottish football low on quality?.....Yes, but that has absolutely no bearing on whether it is entertaining or not.

Its time we talked about the good things in our game rather than beat it down because of the one or two negatives. 

I think you're miss-understanding my point here mate if I'm honest. I know there can be entertainment and fights for relegation/ top six whatever. You get that in every league. The debate is over Scottish football getting a raw deal on TV money and other stuff. We simply don't. We are in a close to unique position where we do not have any competition for our top title. That's what makes the league boring an predictable to TV companies. Why would anyone outside of Scotland care?

My additional point is though, for a country where football is so big and important to people, our league could be of higher standing (not the very top but just a better level) if we actually had some competition instead of a one horse race. 

[Monkey Tennis]

17 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

I think you're miss-understanding my point here mate if I'm honest. I know there can be entertainment and fights for relegation/ top six whatever. You get that in every league. The debate is over Scottish football getting a raw deal on TV money and other stuff. We simply don't. We are in a close to unique position where we do not have any competition for our top title. That's what makes the league boring an predictable to TV companies. Why would anyone outside of Scotland care?

Why would anyone outside of Scotland care anyway?

[Bazil85]

21 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Why would anyone outside of Scotland care anyway?

Same reason people watch football in other countries. Quality of the product, excitement and competition. 

[Monkey Tennis]

59 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

Same reason people watch football in other countries. Quality of the product, excitement and competition. 

I think your thesis here is utterly groundless.

We could have five teams pressing for the title in March and in terms of tangible overseas long term interest, it would make little to no difference.

You've just bought the drivel of people like Alex Rae.  

[Bazil85]

15 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I think your thesis here is utterly groundless.

We could have five teams pressing for the title in March and in terms of tangible overseas long term interest, it would make little to no difference.

You've just bought the drivel of people like Alex Rae.  

Sorry miss-read this. As per comment below, of course it would stir more interest. 

[BawWatchin]

14 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I think your thesis here is utterly groundless.

We could have five teams pressing for the title in March and in terms of tangible overseas long term interest, it would make little to no difference.

You've just bought the drivel of people like Alex Rae.  

Why wouldn't it make any difference, when healthy competition has quite clearly shown to stir up interest in other leagues? Why would ours be any different?

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Why wouldn't it make any difference, when healthy competition has quite clearly shown to stir up interest in other leagues? Why would ours be any different?

Has it?  In small countries like ours?

Got any good examples?

[Bazil85]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Has it?  In small countries like ours?

Got any good examples?

No one is saying we could be a la Liga or an EPL but the commercial ability of a country like Scotland where football is such a big and important part of life is hindered by us having a boring, competitionless league.  My whole point is people moaning about us not getting as much money as we should for TV deals etc. It's nonsense. 

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

No one is saying we could be a la Liga or an EPL but the commercial ability of a country like Scotland where football is such a big and important part of life is hindered by us having a boring, competitionless league.  My whole point is people moaning about us not getting as much money as we should for TV deals etc. It's nonsense. 

So no examples to support you flimsy case at all then?

[Bazil85]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

So no examples to support you flimsy case at all then?

Portugal, Dutch, Danish, Russian league and a dozen others. All countries where football is big but not nearly as big as football is to the Scottish people. Are you seriously trying to tell me if we consistently had five/ six teams all competitive for the title it wouldn't improve marketability of the country's league?

Again no one is saying it'll turn us into the EPL. These leagues have more interest in other countries than SP. Also if you have five teams with a chance for the title, those teams have more interested fans in this country and abroad. You have that consistently it improves marketability of the league. Very simple TBH. 

[Bazil85]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

So no examples to support you flimsy case at all then?

We currently sit 16th in European countries in regards to TV money deal yet we have 1st/ 2nd most fans per population attending football games. There are countries ahead of us that even though they have larger populations, they have smaller numbers of fans attending games. One of the main reasons there's little interest in Scottish football is very clearly the lack of competition. SP bores the life out of me and I'm a Scottish football fan. Would you watch the Olympics if you knew everyone winning the gold medals before it started? 

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

Portugal, Dutch, Danish, Russian league and a dozen others. All countries where football is big but not nearly as big as football is to the Scottish people. Are you seriously trying to tell me if we consistently had five/ six teams all competitive for the title it wouldn't improve marketability of the country's league?

Again no one is saying it'll turn us into the EPL. These leagues have more interest in other countries than SP. Also if you have five teams with a chance for the title, those teams have more interested fans in this country and abroad. You have that consistently it improves marketability of the league. Very simple TBH. 

All you've got is that they have bigger TV deals.  You've not established that this is down to a more keenly contested title.

Fans per head is irrelevant if you're talking about overseas markets, which you hitherto were.

[Bazil85]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

All you've got is that they have bigger TV deals.  You've not established that this is down to a more keenly contested title.

Fans per head is irrelevant if you're talking about overseas markets, which you hitherto were.

So what's it down to? I'm making an educated guess based on what's different in those leagues. 

[Monkey Tennis]

13 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

We currently sit 16th in European countries in regards to TV money deal yet we have 1st/ 2nd most fans per population attending football games. There are countries ahead of us that even though they have larger populations, they have smaller numbers of fans attending games. One of the main reasons there's little interest in Scottish football is very clearly the lack of competition. SP bores the life out of me and I'm a Scottish football fan. Would you watch the Olympics if you knew everyone winning the gold medals before it started? 

You're just basing this on what you'd prefer.  I'd prefer it too.

However, neither of us are overseas fans who might tune in to Scottish football in certain circumstances.

[velo army]

Are you saying that if our league was more competitive that it would be more marketable to audiences outwith our own country? Or are you saying that it would be more marketable only to scottish audiences?

I can perhaps buy the latter point, but given our league is one of the best supported (per capita) in the world (FIFA stats from about 2010) I think we're doing ok on that front.

If it's the former I don't buy it at all. I have absolutely no idea who is competing for the Danish title and I couldn't care less. 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, Bazil85 said:

So what's it down to? I'm making an educated guess based on what's different in those leagues. 

Very different coverage terms often.  

You seem to be shifting the term here regarding whether we're talking about a domestic market or not.

[Bazil85]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're just basing this on what you'd prefer.  I'd prefer it too.

However, neither of us are overseas fans who might tune in to Scottish football in certain circumstances.

This is a discussion thread. It's on peoples opinion. My opinion is if we had a more exciting competitive product, we'd be more marketable and able to command more revenue from people wanting to watch the product. Obviously we can't categorically confirm or deny that we can only look at evidence that exists and form an opinion. My opinion is based on other exciting, competitive leagues that get more income than us with a less interest football population. I think people forget how massive football really is to the Scottish culture. 

[Bazil85]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Very different coverage terms often.  

You seem to be shifting the term here regarding whether we're talking about a domestic market or not.

I'm talking about both. I'm talking about fans not happy with our TV deal and the reason why I think our TV deal is spot on. Lack of interest because of competition. You get more competition you get more interested parties at home and away. Even for Celtic and Sevco fans for example. I've spoken to five 'Celtic' fans today. Three didn't know the score yesterday. If Aberdeen Celtic and Sevco were all neck and neck and it was a nail biting time do you think that would be the same?