Jon Venables

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, hk blues said:

It's a difficult one.  If we are taking the stance that crimes committed as children are not subject to such a punishment, then we can hardly say that if that individual commits crimes as an adult they are cumulative with the ones as a child.  So, if the slate is wiped clean when they become adult, it's wiped clean.  Then again, an evil individual beyond hope is an evil individual beyond hope regardless of age.

Or, you could just not give the state the power to murder its own people whenever it fancies it?

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Or, you could just not give the state the power to murder its own people whenever it fancies it?

It's being tried where I am now - hasn't really worked out well so far.

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Ok.

Tbf, he's not wrong. The new identities (and in Venables' case more than one new identity) were given for a reason. Both face threats on their lives if "outed", particularly Venables, who in addition to the James Bulger murder is now a twice-convicted paedophile. 

I can't for the life of me understand why someone would think killing Venables would in any way avenge his crimes or indeed make any difference at all, but then I also can't for the life of me understand why two young boys aged ten would murder a toddler in brutal circumstances either. 

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

As for Timpsons. Do they do anything for victims of crime or is it just convicted criminals that they want to give a helping hand to?

They help them change their locks after being burgled.

 

 

[welshbairn]

Timpsons provide a valuable rehabilitation service in teaching ex-offenders all about locks and how to cut keys.

[williemillersmoustache]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Speeding is not a criminal offence as far as I know but you seem to know the ins and outs of the criminal justice system so I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

As for Timpsons. Do they do anything for victims of crime or is it just convicted criminals that they want to give a helping hand to?

They give ex-offenders a career opportunity which massively reduces the likelihood of re-offending and therefore the creation of more victims.

But I suppose in your Mad Max world we should have those convicted of minor or any offences forced to eke out their lives in a criminal underclass which would of course have absolutely no societal repercussions at all.

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

A good society should be judged on how it treats victims of crime.

Criminals have a choice.

Victims do not.

Oh and I never knowingly hired a convicted criminal. Had I hired one and found out about it they'd be out the door so fast their feet wouldn't touch the ground.

It's almost as if you have discovered the purpose of the Rehabilitation of Offenders act and why we have this legislation written and designed by grown ups and not lunatics who'd transport urchins to the fever islands for wilfully ignoring the NO BALL GAMES signs in public parks.

Also, if you did dismiss an employee on discovery of a spent conviction you'd be taken to the cleaners at tribunal. Or more likely, being a very smart person you'd settle long before it got there.

Edited October 8, 2021 by williemillersmoustache

[The Moonster]

23 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Tbf, he's not wrong. The new identities (and in Venables' case more than one new identity) were given for a reason. Both face threats on their lives if "outed", particularly Venables, who in addition to the James Bulger murder is now a twice-convicted paedophile. 

I can't for the life of me understand why someone would think killing Venables would in any way avenge his crimes or indeed make any difference at all, but then I also can't for the life of me understand why two young boys aged ten would murder a toddler in brutal circumstances either. 

Not arguing he's wrong, but like you I don't know what it would solve. 

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Those on the forum with criminal convictions have certainly outed themselves over the last 24 hours.

Imagine the level of entitlement needed to have a criminal record and then complain that people won't give you a chance whilst simultaneously showing no empathy whatsoever towards victims of crime.

You're some boi, oaky. 

[DukDukGoose]

22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Those on the forum with criminal convictions have certainly outed themselves over the last 24 hours.

Imagine the level of entitlement needed to have a criminal record and then complain that people won't give you a chance whilst simultaneously showing no empathy whatsoever towards victims of crime.

[Billy Jean King]

Cant believe the amount of people online who stick up for their crimes by saying "but they were children". Maybe I could accept that if they'd pushed him onto a road or something, but James Bulger had about 30 injuries to his face alone. They were sick b*****ds who had the wherewith all to walk him miles to a rail track to make it look like a train had hit and killed him. That's not even starting on the sexual element involved.
I dont agree with serious criminals like murders and paedophiles having immunity and a new identity. Future partners or employers deserve to know the background of beasts like those pair and Maxine Carr 

Was there a "sexual element" to the Bulger murder. I don't recall ever reading that he had been sexually assaulted. Venables has been convicted of possession of paedophilia since but I'm not sure the actual murder had any sexual element to it although it was absolutely horrific without that too.

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Employers can dismiss employees for virtually any reason they like and there's almost nothing an employed can do about it. It happens every day in every part of the country. Almost none of them end up in court.

Being a bit loose with the truth here oaky. They don't end up in court because a significant number of claims get settled before they get there. There was over 100,000 tribunal claims in the last year. 

[williemillersmoustache]

Just now, oaksoft said:

Imagine criminal actions having consequences for the criminal. Can't have that now can we.......

Jobs should go to those in society who DONT commit crimes and make their fellow citizens lives miserable.

If criminals don't like it then they should try the incredibly revolutionary idea of not committing crimes.

1) Employers can dismiss employees for virtually any reason they like and 2) there's almost nothing an employed can do about it. It happens every day in every part of the country. Almost none of them end up in court. Hiding a criminal record which was subsequently discovered would be an easy out as an example. What about spent convictions I hear you say? That can be equally easy to deal with.

But hey, you continue to enjoy that wee imaginary world of yours where employers are taken to the cleaners at the slightest provocation.

1) No. No they can't.

2) Yes there is.

3) Thanks for playing.

 

[velo army]

22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Imagine criminal actions having consequences for the criminal. Can't have that now can we.......

Jobs should go to those in society who DONT commit crimes and make their fellow citizens lives miserable.

If criminals don't like it then they should try the incredibly revolutionary idea of not committing crimes.

Employers can dismiss employees for virtually any reason they like and there's almost nothing an employed can do about it. It happens every day in every part of the country. Almost none of them end up in court. Hiding a criminal record which was subsequently discovered would be an easy out as an example. What about spent convictions I hear you say? That can be equally easy to deal with.

But hey, you continue to enjoy that wee imaginary world of yours where employers are taken to the cleaners at the slightest provocation.

I've had many bosses/colleagues who manage this without having a criminal record tbf.

 

[ICTChris]

22 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

8 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Cant believe the amount of people online who stick up for their crimes by saying "but they were children". Maybe I could accept that if they'd pushed him onto a road or something, but James Bulger had about 30 injuries to his face alone. They were sick b*****ds who had the wherewith all to walk him miles to a rail track to make it look like a train had hit and killed him. That's not even starting on the sexual element involved.
I dont agree with serious criminals like murders and paedophiles having immunity and a new identity. Future partners or employers deserve to know the background of beasts like those pair and Maxine Carr 

Was there a "sexual element" to the Bulger murder. I don't recall ever reading that he had been sexually assaulted. Venables has been convicted of possession of paedophilia since but I'm not sure the actual murder had any sexual element to it although it was absolutely horrific without that too.

It was strongly suspected that the murder had a sexual element.

 

Regarding TImpsons, they aren't employing child murderers.  People who commit crimes and are imprisoned don't have the mark of Cain on them.  Gaining employment is an important step for stopping reoffending.

[DukDukGoose]

35 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

8 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Cant believe the amount of people online who stick up for their crimes by saying "but they were children". Maybe I could accept that if they'd pushed him onto a road or something, but James Bulger had about 30 injuries to his face alone. They were sick b*****ds who had the wherewith all to walk him miles to a rail track to make it look like a train had hit and killed him. That's not even starting on the sexual element involved.
I dont agree with serious criminals like murders and paedophiles having immunity and a new identity. Future partners or employers deserve to know the background of beasts like those pair and Maxine Carr 

Was there a "sexual element" to the Bulger murder. I don't recall ever reading that he had been sexually assaulted. Venables has been convicted of possession of paedophilia since but I'm not sure the actual murder had any sexual element to it although it was absolutely horrific without that too.

Do yourself a favour and never, ever have a proper look in to it.

[Billy Jean King]

Do yourself a favour and never, ever have a proper look in to it.

I did have a search today to try to confirm my recollections. Absolutely beyond comprehension for kids that age but I still can't see their being any mention that the wee lad was sexually assaulted.

[Billy Jean King]

Wasn't it the case that Oaky only ever employed people from within his own family circle, I seem to recall that from his BWA days. Presumably he felt he didn't have the skills to recruit well from the "big pool" however how you find the skill set required to fill every post in a business from within such a restricted subset is a mystery. Possibly also felt it gave him the opportunity to ride roughshod over them and their employment rights, he is clearly demonstrating he would have.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said:

They give ex-offenders a career opportunity which massively reduces the likelihood of re-offending and therefore the creation of more victims.

But I suppose in your Mad Max world we should have those convicted of minor or any offences forced to eek out their lives in a criminal underclass which would of course have absolutely no societal repercussions at all.

It's almost as if you have discovered the purpose of the Rehabilitation of Offenders act and why we have this legislation written and designed by grown ups and not lunatics who'd transport urchins to the fever islands for wilfully ignoring the NO BALL GAMES signs in public parks.

Also, if you did dismiss an employee on discovery of a spent conviction you'd be taken to the cleaners at tribunal. Or more likely, being a very smart person you'd settle long before it got there.

That's pretty scary

[Cheese]

A tremendous last couple of pages. Oakworth went for the human Daily Mail comments section and pulled it off brilliantly  

As for me, anything more serious than a parking ticket and it's the Squid Games for all these filthy crims.

[BFTD]

Really missed Oaksoft's frothing rants about his inferiors.

I bet criminals get handed all sorts of benefits too  

[Sergeant Wilson]

16 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Yup, it's like Germany in the 1930s.

Your point being?

10 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Cant believe the amount of people online who stick up for their crimes by saying "but they were children". Maybe I could accept that if they'd pushed him onto a road or something, but James Bulger had about 30 injuries to his face alone. They were sick b*****ds who had the wherewith all to walk him miles to a rail track to make it look like a train had hit and killed him. That's not even starting on the sexual element involved.

I dont agree with serious criminals like murders and paedophiles having immunity and a new identity. Future partners or employers deserve to know the background of beasts like those pair and Maxine Carr 

Who is sticking up for their crimes, in what way has anyone expressed condoning child murder?