Sectarianism

[The DA]

Scottish football accused of sweeping sectarianism under carpet

Does anyone really believe anything will come of this?  

[Bairnardo]

No, but it is good to see it get acknowledged by someone in the media for a change.

[Mark Connolly]

If there was sectarianism in Scottish football, you would regularly read about it in the newspapers, and hear the fans singing the songs on the telly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gannonball]

No, I dont believe they are. What needs to be established first though is what is deemed sectarian and what is not, far too many people and media outlets are dishing out accusations of it when it hasn't been the case. Once we know what songs/chants are then we start talking about punishment. 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

Would like the league to take a blanket ban on any political symbols (national flegs such as, for example, the Irish tricolour or the British Union Jack) for a laugh.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Would like the league to take a blanket ban on any political symbols (national flegs such as, for example, the Irish tricolour or the British Union Jack) for a laugh.

How about the Saltire? The problem is that people only want to ban the symbols they don't like and haven't really internalised the values of modern political correctness, but instead see it as a useful weapon to go after groups they don't like.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

How about the Saltire? The problem is that people only want to ban the symbols they don't like and haven't really internalised the values of modern political correctness, but instead see it as a useful weapon to go after groups they don't like.

apologies - was being tongue in cheek but tone doesn't travel well across the internet.

[DanMc99]

i think people just accept it now , it's hardly shocking , most people probably hear sectarianism daily.

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, gannonball said:

No, I dont believe they are. What needs to be established first though is what is deemed sectarian and what is not, far too many people and media outlets are dishing out accusations of it when it hasn't been the case. Once we know what songs/chants are then we start talking about punishment. 

Correct - a lot of the stuff sung isn't sectarian per se, just grossly offensive.

[killienick]

[BawWatchin]

Flags that aren't football flags should be banned from every ground. With the exception of Ibrox. Where away fans should be actively encouraged to wave around SNP supporters flags.

[bennett]

9 hours ago, gannonball said:

No, I dont believe they are. What needs to be established first though is what is deemed sectarian and what is not, far too many people and media outlets are dishing out accusations of it when it hasn't been the case. Once we know what songs/chants are then we start talking about punishment. 

^

If it's Sevco then its sectarian.

If it's not sevco then it's fine.

40 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Flags that aren't football flags should be banned from every ground. With the exception of Ibrox. Where away fans should be actively encouraged to wave around SNP supporters flags.

You do realise that a lot of bears are SNP members/voters.....

 

 

[BawWatchin]

8 minutes ago, bennett said:

You do realise that a lot of bears are SNP members/voters.....

Certainly more bears are SNP supporters than sevco fans.

[kingjoey]

Here’s part of the problem. I’m using Celtic as an example because it’s the most recent game against one of the “Big Two” that I have attended. Two separate things happened at Pittodrie that day. Shay Logan kicked the ball off Scott Brown, and the vast majority of the 2,000 Celtic fans sang about joining the IRA three or four times during the match. Afterwards, Brendan Rodgers had a go at Logan as being a bad example for young supporters. However, no mention that the the Celtic fans singing about joining an illegal organisation is a bad example for young supporters. It’s the deafening silence from clubs that is a major problem. For any club whose supporters sing sectarian songs during games, these clubs should be coming out after EVERY match and saying that it is unacceptable. Every game, no exceptions. By keeping silent, these clubs are in effect saying that it’s ok to sing their utter bile, week in, week out.

[Jacksgranda]

Singing songs eulogising the IRA is not sectarian, just offensive.

[gannonball]

53 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Here’s part of the problem. I’m using Celtic as an example because it’s the most recent game against one of the “Big Two” that I have attended. Two separate things happened at Pittodrie that day. Shay Logan kicked the ball off Scott Brown, and the vast majority of the 2,000 Celtic fans sang about joining the IRA three or four times during the match. Afterwards, Brendan Rodgers had a go at Logan as being a bad example for young supporters. However, no mention that the the Celtic fans singing about joining an illegal organisation is a bad example for young supporters. It’s the deafening silence from clubs that is a major problem. For any club whose supporters sing sectarian songs during games, these clubs should be coming out after EVERY match and saying that it is unacceptable. Every game, no exceptions. By keeping silent, these clubs are in effect saying that it’s ok to sing their utter bile, week in, week out.

 

43 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Singing songs eulogising the IRA is not sectarian, just offensive.

 

Exactly, and If you are going to going down the offensive route it could end up like fines for every round of games like UEFA do for ‘illicit’ chants etc.

Best starting with ones that are blatantly sectarian/racist/homophobic. Looking at it from the Celtic songbook though Roaming in the Gloaming is the only one that springs to mind that is sectarian, and I haven't heard it being sung at games for a couple of years.

[sugna]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

For any club whose supporters sing sectarian songs during games, these clubs should be coming out after EVERY match and saying that it is unacceptable. Every game, no exceptions. By keeping silent, these clubs are in effect saying that it’s ok to sing their utter bile, week in, week out.

There is no excuse for the clubs not doing this. The reason may well be that they perceive they'd be alienating their natural support; but the number of potential supporters who are currently alienated by the songs is probably already quite high.

Also, it is clearly the right thing to do. There are so many historical examples of what amounts to appeasement that it's a bit depressing when clubs take the mealy-mouthed easy option rather than learning from history and showing some actual courage.

[kingjoey]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Singing songs eulogising the IRA is not sectarian, just offensive.

Nothing to do with the point that I was making. Well played sir.

[kingjoey]

59 minutes ago, gannonball said:

 

 

Exactly, and If you are going to going down the offensive route it could end up like fines for every round of games like UEFA do for ‘illicit’ chants etc.

Best starting with ones that are blatantly sectarian/racist/homophobic. Looking at it from the Celtic songbook though Roaming in the Gloaming is the only one that springs to mind that is sectarian, and I haven't heard it being sung at games for a couple of years.

Again, you’re deliberately missing my point about clubs not coming out and lambasting fans for these songs. I never mentioned fines.

[Jacksgranda]

 

27 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Nothing to do with the point that I was making. Well played sir.

You mentioned Celtic fans singing about the IRA, and BR (or anyone else for that matter) not mentioning or condemning it. The title of the thread is Sectarianism. I merely pointed out that singing songs eulogising the IRA (which was what you mentioned) wasn't sectarian. 

I said it was offensive.