Needing a strong Rangers in Scottish football is nonsense

[D Angelo Barksdale]

The shared gate receipts thing is an interesting point. Like MT I can't see how it would make the gap wider tbh. I wonder if @HibeeJibee has any stats or info on this ?

[HibeeJibee]

13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I wouldn't want TV money distributed as prize money, because all that does is reinforce current advantage.  I'd want it pooled and distributed much more equally.

League TV money is distributed as prizemoney right now?

[TheCelt67]

The whole 'today's attendance is based on tickets sold, rather than people actually in attendance' would go right out the window if teams were splitting game receipts.

ETA, unless we're talking about the revenue from season ticket sales to be split. 

[SilverWolfe]

I don't accept that you're right, such is the difference between home gates for the OF sides and those for the other teams they share a division with.
Of course, as long as the CL exists in anything like its current form, the advantage will remain destructively huge.

I can't remember if we've discussed this before but I have performed some analysis on the gate receipts idea and I just don't see how it would help create competition to Celtic.

Celtic and Rangers would obviously be worse off but Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen would break even at current attendances while the other 7 clubs would gain quite massively out of it.

Celtic would only end up about 10% less in revenue while you have dragged the other 7 clubs much closer to Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts which would make it harder for any of those 3 to get closer to Celtic.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

When you say equally, what are you looking for?

Should Elgin get the same amount as Aberdeen for example? I'm not really sure how that improves anything. What's your ultimate goal here?

Yes, ideally I'd want the cash split 42 ways, but I recognise that as unrealistic.

I'd happily see each side in a given division receive the same amount, with the sums dropping from one division to the next, but not too steeply.

My goal would be to see the sides being better matched, because football is more interesting that way.   

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

I can't remember if we've discussed this before but I have performed some analysis on the gate receipts idea and I just don't see how it would help create competition to Celtic.

Celtic and Rangers would obviously be worse off but Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen would break even at current attendances while the other 7 clubs would gain quite massively out of it.

Celtic would only end up about 10% less in revenue while you have dragged the other 7 clubs much closer to Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts which would make it harder for any of those 3 to get closer to Celtic.

So bringing loads of clubs much closer to Celtic would not dent their advantage?

Ok.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

League TV money is distributed as prizemoney right now?

Is it not?

[SilverWolfe]

So bringing loads up clubs much closer to Celtic would not dent their advantage?

Ok.

Well you're not actually bringing them much closer to Celtic at all, you are bringing them closer but not in any material way that it would make a difference.

 

Celtic would make say £80m instead of £90m while a Patrick Thistle would make £5m instead of £3m. Aberdeen would stay at about £15m.

 

All you've achieved is to make teams like thistle more competitive against Aberdeen making it more difficult to catch Celtic who are still miles and miles ahead of everyone.

 

[SilverWolfe]

Is it not?

It is.

I get what you're trying to achieve with this but like the gate receipts all you'll achieve is making it harder for Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts while it doesn't impact Celtic materially. Fair enough if you're just wanting the lower leagues to be more even.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, Tartantony said:

Well your not actually bringing them much closer to Celtic at all, you are bringing them closer but not in any material way that it would make a difference.

Celtic would make say £80m instead of £90m while a Patrick Thistle would make £5m instead of £3m. Aberdeen would stay at about £15m.

All you've achieved is to make teams like thistle more competitive against Aberdeen making it more difficult to catch Celtic who are still miles and miles ahead of everyone.

Surely, it makes the other sides likelier to nick points from the OF than is now the case?

Your figures aren't based on anything are they?

[The_Kincardine]

League sponsorship/TV money should be distributed according to the number of posts made about each club on P&B.  This shows you the true importance each club has according to the people who really matter - the fans.

[HibeeJibee]

32 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The shared gate receipts thing is an interesting point. Like MT I can't see how it would make the gap wider tbh. I wonder if @HibeeJibee has any stats or info on this ?

It couldn't make the gap wide but remember clubs like Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen would make no more money than now from it. Taking this season (assuming 60k + 20k sell-outs on Sunday):

Clubs Take All Home Receipts
Celtic ... 1,094,638 ... say £22M
Rangers ... 934,338 ... say £19M
Hibs ... 344,776 ... say £7M
Aberdeen ... 299,734 ... say £6M

Clubs Take Half of Home & Away Receipts
Celtic ... 692,312 ... say £14M (down £8M)
Rangers ... 626,097 ... say £13M (down £6M)
Hibs ... 344,259 ... say £7M (level)
Aberdeen ... 323,683 ... say £6M (level)

Basically the 7 smaller clubs would make perhaps £2M each.


Of course "gate-sharing" was never actually 50-50 anyway, incidentally.

[SilverWolfe]

Surely, it makes the other sides likelier to nick points from the OF than is now the case?
Your figures aren't based on anything are they?

Maybe they would but it would be much more likely that they'll take more points off Aberdeen than they do now.

My figures are based on the club's most recent financial results and some estimates/ assumptions. I could be slightly out here or there but I don't see me being significantly wrong on the overall impact. I.e 2 teams lose out, 3 remain static and 7 get better off.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

It couldn't make the gap wide but remember clubs like Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen would make no more money than now from it. Taking this season (assuming 60k + 20k sell-outs on Sunday):

Clubs Take All Home Receipts
Celtic ... 1,094,638 ... say £22M
Rangers ... 934,338 ... say £19M
Hibs ... 344,776 ... say £7M
Aberdeen ... 299,734 ... say £6M

Clubs Take Half of Home & Away Receipts
Celtic ... 692,312 ... say £14M (down £8M)
Rangers ... 626,097 ... say £13M (down £6M)
Hibs ... 344,259 ... say £7M (level)
Aberdeen ... 323,683 ... say £6M (level)


Of course "gate-sharing" was never actually 50-50 anyway, incidentally.

Yes, I know it was more complicated and featured a retainer element.  

Your figures make more sense than Tony's though.

The OF clubs would only have twice the income of those closest, as opposed to three times as much currently.

Other teams would benefit too, thus potentially doing more damage to all the clubs above them.  What's not to like?

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Tartantony said:

Maybe they would but it would be much more likely that they'll take more points off Aberdeen than they do now.

My figures are based on the club's most recent financial results and some estimates/ assumptions. I could be slightly out here or there but I don't see me being significantly wrong on the overall impact. I.e 2 teams lose out, 3 remain static and 7 get better off.

Yes, but your differentials are widely exaggerated to enhance your point.  The impact would not therefore be as you suggest.

[SilverWolfe]

Yes, but your differentials are widely exaggerated to enhance your point.  The impact would not therefore be as you suggest.

They're not wildly exaggerated at all. You just don't like that your idea wouldn't work as you think it would.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Tartantony said:

13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, but your differentials are widely exaggerated to enhance your point.  The impact would not therefore be as you suggest.

They're not wildly exaggerated at all. You just don't like that your idea wouldn't work as you think it would.

It would work exactly as I would hope.

It would make the playing field more (though obviously not entirely) level.  

 

Your figures were indeed wildly exaggerated. Pitching the OF at around £80m - £90m, as opposed to around £15m for Aberdeen, bears no relation to reality.  The differentials would be nothing like that.  Your citing of such numbers was as self serving as it was dishonest.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I wouldn't want TV money distributed as prize money, because all that does is reinforce current advantage.  I'd want it pooled and distributed much more equally.

Then you lose part of the incentive for clubs to climb the table, don't you think that Kilmarnock deserve a higher share of prize money after their exploits this season?

 

Same with clubs like Sevco and hibs who until fairly recently were lower league clubs.... 

[SilverWolfe]

It would work exactly as I would hope.
It would make the playing field more (though obviously not entirely) level.  
 
Your figures were indeed wildly exaggerated. Pitching the OF at around £80m - £90m, as opposed to around £15m for Aberdeen, bears no relation to reality.  The differentials would be nothing like that.  Your citing of such numbers was as self serving as it was dishonest.

What? In what way are those figures dishonest?

Celtic and Aberdeen earned revenue of £90.3m and £15.2m respectively last season. Based on the forecast for splitting gate receipts, Celtic would drop to about £80m (in fact i have it a bit higher than £80m so under exagerated) and Aberdeen would remain static at £15m.

You see what you actually mean when wanting gates split is you want Celtic and Rangers gates split and everyone else to keep theirs. Your passion for parity is admirable and something I also want but your idea of how to achieve it is simply fantasy. Your hatred of the OF completely blinds your opinions and makes you come across as bitter.

[D.A.F.C]

What Scotland needs is all the glory hunting bigoted fuckwits to support their local team instead of pretending to support Rangers or Celtic because their fragile egos can't handle losing most of the time. Also if the media could stop and get off the old firm gravy train and actually care about and cover the other sides properly that might help?