true_rover Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 VAR has been responsible for some good decisions, the most obvious one being Neymar’s penalty the other day. But I’m not sure how the fouls on Kane against Tunisia, Mitrovic against Switzerland and Berg last night could be described as anything other than ‘clear and obvious’ errors. A bit inconsistently used at the moment. Hopefully they’ll get there. Haven't seen the other ones yet, but with the one on Kane - from what I remember the video was also picking up a foul by Stones at the same time so it was all let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 A dive shouldn’t be a red card. What VAR has shown is that diving very rarely results in a game changing decision. Diving is a relatively minor problem. Not for me it's not. The Brazil costa rica game the other day was absolutely fucking ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 9 hours ago, Uncle Psychosis said: Already happened in the Netherlands. The whole thing seems a bit mental. What I'm not sure on is what happens to the clock---if they play on for a few minutes after a "VAR decision", what happens to those minutes if the ref decides an offence was committed? Do they add it on at the end or is the time lost? To be fair, that goal wasn't disallowed for a penalty to be given, but for offside. Had he decided not to give the penalty, it still wouldn't have been a goal. Having said that: if there is a clear and obvious error, the VAR referee should be able to signal the referee that he has to stop play, to prevent such a farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 9 hours ago, Uncle Psychosis said: Already happened in the Netherlands. The whole thing seems a bit mental. What I'm not sure on is what happens to the clock---if they play on for a few minutes after a "VAR decision", what happens to those minutes if the ref decides an offence was committed? Do they add it on at the end or is the time lost? Did he score the penalty? That joke needs a punchline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Paco said: VAR has been responsible for some good decisions, the most obvious one being Neymar’s penalty the other day. But I’m not sure how the fouls on Kane against Tunisia, Mitrovic against Switzerland and Berg last night could be described as anything other than ‘clear and obvious’ errors. A bit inconsistently used at the moment. Hopefully they’ll get there. No one seems to mention that within a second of Kane being rugby tackled the ball fell to Lingard (I think) about 6 yards out in the middle of the box with a clear shot at goal who once again sclaffed his shot. If the ref awarded the penalty England would've had had two chances to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Paco said: VAR has been responsible for some good decisions, the most obvious one being Neymar’s penalty the other day. But I’m not sure how the fouls on Kane against Tunisia, Mitrovic against Switzerland and Berg last night could be described as anything other than ‘clear and obvious’ errors. A bit inconsistently used at the moment. Hopefully they’ll get there. That's true, but the thing is if VAR wasn't being used they wouldn't have been given as penalties either, so it's not as if there is any loss. In a non-VAR tournament, all the above decision would have been incorrect, with VAR they at least got one correct. Some people seem to have the attitude that because it's not resulting in 100% correct decisions then it doesn't work, which is bizarre. As you say, it is a bit inconsistently used at the moment, but the only way it will get better is by using it and adapting it and seeing what works in reality. I've read some people saying that they shouldn't be 'trialing' the system at a World Cup, but again, even the imperfect system is far fairer than no VAR at all, so I'm quite happy for them to use it and refine it during a tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Paco said: VAR has been responsible for some good decisions, the most obvious one being Neymar’s penalty the other day. But I’m not sure how the fouls on Kane against Tunisia, Mitrovic against Switzerland and Berg last night could be described as anything other than ‘clear and obvious’ errors. A bit inconsistently used at the moment. Hopefully they’ll get there. I don't think Berg's was a foul. Or at least, it's a borderline call (much as the penalty in/outside the box incident). Those aren't the calls that VAR is intended to solve. 2 hours ago, pandarilla said: 20 hours ago, Savage Henry said: A dive shouldn’t be a red card. What VAR has shown is that diving very rarely results in a game changing decision. Diving is a relatively minor problem. Not for me it's not. The Brazil costa rica game the other day was absolutely fucking ridiculous. In fairness, Neymar's dive was something that very few players would have the gall to try. He and Alex Schalk, maybe. I think one of the benefits of VAR has been to show how few dives there actually are inside the box (and how many there are outside, as well, to be fair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 No one seems to mention that within a second of Kane being rugby tackled the ball fell to Lingard (I think) about 6 yards out in the middle of the box with a clear shot at goal who once again sclaffed his shot. If the ref awarded the penalty England would've had had two chances to score. Entirely true of course but that happens in ‘normal’ games too, it isn’t exclusive to VAR. The ref should always wait a second or two and come back if necessary. Happens all the time. That's true, but the thing is if VAR wasn't being used they wouldn't have been given as penalties either, so it's not as if there is any loss. In a non-VAR tournament, all the above decision would have been incorrect, with VAR they at least got one correct. Some people seem to have the attitude that because it's not resulting in 100% correct decisions then it doesn't work, which is bizarre. As you say, it is a bit inconsistently used at the moment, but the only way it will get better is by using it and adapting it and seeing what works in reality. I've read some people saying that they shouldn't be 'trialing' the system at a World Cup, but again, even the imperfect system is far fairer than no VAR at all, so I'm quite happy for them to use it and refine it during a tournament. I agree fully with that. It’s not perfect but using it for penalty calls I’m not sure it can ever be, such is the subjective nature of football. It can improve with definitive rules on when it gets involved, and letting those in the stadium/at home when it’s being used, and how. One thing that would definitely have to be said for the British audience is that it’s been significantly better than the FA Cup. I don’t think Berg’s was a foul I appreciate that one was slightly more subjective, but then so was Ronaldo’s against Spain, Griezemann against Australia and the handball that went in Australia’s favour against Denmark and VAR didn’t have a problem getting involved there. All could be argued either way, which is what I mean about tightening up and nailing down exactly when it gets involved. Currently it feels like it’s at the behest of the individual VAR to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Marten said: To be fair, that goal wasn't disallowed for a penalty to be given, but for offside. Had he decided not to give the penalty, it still wouldn't have been a goal. Having said that: if there is a clear and obvious error, the VAR referee should be able to signal the referee that he has to stop play, to prevent such a farce. Well the VAR needs time to check the video first - they only had 17 seconds to check between the penalty appeal and "goal". If the ball hasn't gone out of play referees can stop play in a neutral area - but if one team has a good attacking possibility then better to let it run in case the main referee disagrees with the VAR. 14 minutes ago, Paco said: One thing that would definitely have to be said for the British audience is that it’s been significantly better than the FA Cup. VAR in the semis and final of the FA Cup was fine as everybody had more experience compared to the early rounds, which also had more incidents to review (e.g. Rochdale). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Call me cynical but I remain to be convinced that VAR guys will have the bottle or even the willingness to consistently make calls on game-changing decisions against bigger sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Two teams in position for kick off two minutes after a goal was scored, waiting for officials hundreds of miles away to microscope over multiple angles to check for minute infringements in order to appease neurotic pearl-clutching 'fairness' types. This isn't football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, nsr said: Call me cynical but I remain to be convinced that VAR guys will have the bottle or even the willingness to consistently make calls on game-changing decisions against bigger sides. Depends which school they went to tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Another big VAR call tonight with Ronaldo avoiding a red card. This has been my first comment on VAR but I think it has worked really well and, by allowing the referee to review it at the side of the pitch if he chooses, you can continue to get that element of discussion about decisions that I think some people felt would be lost. I'm not so much of a fan of it being reviewed to some VAR control centre but it does offer the referee a good support tool and it has stopped players crowding around referees for as long. Just as I type the referee has given a very soft VAR penalty against Portugal but I thought Ronaldos yellow was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 VAR shouldn't really be needed, but the constant whining, crying and cheating of players and managers over the years has forced it. They've brought this on themselves. Get it massively right fucking up them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 As much as I don't agree with that penalty tonight I do like the fact that the referee can get another look - so at least if the referee is wrong he is sure about the call instead of making an instant decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I'm absolutely gagging for England to get knocked out over a VAR decision. That would be glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 VAR is shite. Gives shit refs two attempts to make a fucking ridiculous decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dindeleux said: As much as I don't agree with that penalty tonight I do like the fact that the referee can get another look - so at least if the referee is wrong he is sure about the call instead of making an instant decision. Problem is you can get a weak referee and the pressure put on him by being asked by the VAR to check the screen. Thought the referee might've been strong enough with the late penalty to tell the VAR to get tae f**k but alas not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Why are people criticising VAR for that penalty decision? It was the human error of a rubbish referee that caused the issue, not any failing with the VAR system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 How many times have we seen the system failing? Twice? Three times? The number of times it has worked has put its success beyond doubt thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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