What is the point of Labour ?

[NotThePars]

I just find it funny voting Green down south between 2017-2019 given they were so comprehensively outflanked on the environment by Labour that Caroline Lucas went full People's Vote brain 

[GordonS]

This thread has some good thinking on the point of Labour, and concludes that their strategic landscape in Scotland is pretty ugly. 

 

[GordonS]

On 02/07/2020 at 23:25, Boo Khaki said:

On the plus side, a catastrophic accident that left the entire central belt uninhabitable for eons is one of the few things that would see Trident removed from Faslane ASAP.

Silver linings and all that.

FWIW, the world has had tens of thousands of nuclear warheads for many decades and there hasn't been a single catastrophic accident. There hasn't been a serious accident in a Western country since the early days. I don't think many people in Scotland care much about Trident at all. 

[Wee Willie]

On 05/07/2020 at 10:06, GordonS said:

FWIW, the world has had tens of thousands of nuclear warheads for many decades and there hasn't been a single catastrophic accident. There hasn't been a serious accident in a Western country since the early days. I don't think many people in Scotland care much about Trident at all. 

Perhaps you're correct but there have been enough accidents involving nuclear power. It's also telling that just before the 2014 Scottish referendum, the MoD did a report on Trident if Scotland had voted YES. The conclusion was that they would have to get rid of it because nowhere in England would accept it. Surely that tells you something?

 I don't think many people in Scotland care much about Trident at all. 

Perhaps it's because as I stated earlier no one is mentioning Trident. The SNP should be shouting from the rooftops their objections to that weapon. Are you one of the ones who disnae care re Trident? Are you quite content to bide in Scotland with Trident based less than 30 miles from Glasgow ?

there hasn't been a single catastrophic accident

But there is still the possibility. A radio-active cloud moving over the Central Belt would make Scotland off-limits for centuries. Are you prepared to accept that?

[Wee Willie]

I thought I had the report from the MoD of 2014 but I cannae find it.

A quick google got these two articles.

January 29, 2011: Ministry of Defence and CND are in agreement: Trident has nowhere to go

https://cnduk.org/ministry-defence-cnd-agreement-trident-nowhere-go/

If Scotland becomes independent in 2014, Trident will have nowhere to go.

This is the verdict from within the Ministry of Defence (MoD). It is also the conclusion of CND’s detailed report, based on government archives, into potential alternative sites for Trident.

An MoD source has confirmed that “there simply isn’t anywhere else where we can do what we do at Coulport [nuclear weapons storage], and without that, there is no deterrent.”

 

  First published on Fri 4 Jan 2013 15.52 GMT

MoD: Trident submarines cannot be moved from Scotland to Plymouth

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/04/mod-nuclear-submarines-scotland-plymouth

Britain's nuclear-armed submarines cannot be moved from Scotland to the Devonport naval base in Plymouth because they do not have safety clearances to dock there.

The disclosure has huge implications for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) if Scotland votes for independence and a new government demands the withdrawal of the nuclear fleet. The MoD has revealed that the safety arrangements for Devonport do not permit the presence of submarines carrying Trident nuclear warheads. The MoD's safety experts are not considering changing that. The problem is that the dockyard is in a densely populated area and, if there were an accident, thousands of people would be at risk. The worst accident scenario envisaged by the MoD would kill up to 11,000 people in Plymouth and would not meet the official criteria for what is acceptable, according to a new report.

_________________________________

Remember every unionist party supports Trident at Faslane

[Detournement]

There is no chance the SNP leadership wouldn't buckle as soon as the USA applied pressure to keep them on the Clyde.

 

[NotThePars]

 

 

[itzdrk]

Keir Starmer photos in brewdog are hilarious, c**t looks like he's never seen a pint in his life. 

[Wee Willie]

18 hours ago, Detournement said:

There is no chance the SNP leadership wouldn't buckle as soon as the USA applied pressure to keep them on the Clyde.

 

And you're okay with that?

[pandarilla]

 
 

Is the term 'puppet master' now seem as anti semitic? Or do you have to check that someone is not Jewish before using it?

Surely to f**k the origin of the term matters more?

[oneteaminglasgow]

14 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Is the term 'puppet master' now seem as anti semitic? Or do you have to check that someone is not Jewish before using it?

Surely to f**k the origin of the term matters more?

I dunno, I’d say if you’re going to accuse a rich Jewish person of secretly running the government, probably best to avoid using the exact same language that far right nutters use about George Soros and/or Israel.

[pandarilla]

I dunno, I’d say if you’re going to accuse a rich Jewish person of secretly running the government, probably best to avoid using the exact same language that far right nutters use about George Soros and/or Israel.

I get that point.

I guess the problem i have is that it forces folk to be aware of who's jewish and who's not. That's surely not a good sign - when we should be trying to take folks religion out of things completely.

And the solution of just not using terms like puppetmaster doesn't seem particularly progressive either. We shouldn't be limiting language like this, unless it's absolutely necessary.

[AUFC90]

To be fair, nuclear weapons dont just accidently go off. It's literally impossible.

But there's at least one Scot who is 'pragmatic' regarding Trident.
Pragmatic: dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations
 

[Wee Willie]

14 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

To be fair, nuclear weapons dont just accidently go off. It's literally impossible.

I don't remember reading that in the MoD report.

They concluded that nowhere in England would welcome Trident and if Scotland had voted YES in 2014 then Trident would have been returned to the USA.

Does that no say something about the weapon?

[invergowrie arab]

On 30/06/2020 at 17:02, Ludo*1 said:

I like Blackford, but he's been a massive downgrade on Angus Robertson. The English media and the Tories just view him as a joke figure. Robertson made sure they feared him. (As much as an SNP rep can be 'feared' in Westminster) Robertson was a big loss.

Swinney is just grossly incompetent. He's made an absolute arse with education and he made an absolute arse of the leadership. Should be nowhere near an important role.

Absolute rubbish.

John Swinney created the modern SNP by doing the hard stuff amd weeding out the factions that a populist like Salmond couldn't bring himself to do.

Nobody has done more to bring independence as close as it is than John Swinney

[Ludo*1]

2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Absolute rubbish.

John Swinney created the modern SNP by doing the hard stuff amd weeding out the factions that a populist like Salmond couldn't bring himself to do.

Nobody has done more to bring independence as close as it is than John Swinney

Hiya John.

[pandarilla]

Absolute rubbish.
John Swinney created the modern SNP by doing the hard stuff amd weeding out the factions that a populist like Salmond couldn't bring himself to do.
Nobody has done more to bring independence as close as it is than John Swinney

That's certainly not what i remember of his time in charge. He lacked charisma but also seemed to take the party to the right, and i felt it became much more of a centrist party in those years.

Salmond coming back revitalised them.

The huge increase in membership after 2014 is generally quite left wing, and sturgeon is trying (with considerable success) to keep it all together.

[Arsenal till I die]

On 06/07/2020 at 15:24, NotThePars said:

 

 

To be fair to Nick Ferrari (never thought I'd say that) when we have non-Jews like Cummings, Trump, Rees-Mogg etc to choose from, it seems a weird choice for puppet master accusation.

[Detournement]

Scumbags. 

[NotThePars]

Wonder where Mike Gapes ends up