What is the point of Labour ?

[Theroadlesstravelled]

3 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Our auld pal Duncan has the answer.

https://labourhame.com/the-opportunities-of-failure/

'We need to build a broad coalition of the left, and we should do it without almost everyone on the left in Scotland'

The high number of Labour supporters who refuse to yield on anything that's not been copy and pasted from The Communist Manifesto is maddening.

Corbyn has completely destroyed the party. It'll take years to recover.

[Antlion]

4 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Our auld pal Duncan has the answer.

https://labourhame.com/the-opportunities-of-failure/

'We need to build a broad coalition of the left, and we should do it without almost everyone on the left in Scotland'

Glorious. Total end of days in the bunker stuff. Anyone who isn’t pure is out. Anyone who voices dissent has no place in the branch office. Opposition is disloyalty. Failure is glory.

 

[NotThePars]

16 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

The high number of Labour supporters who refuse to yield on anything that's not been copy and pasted from The Communist Manifesto is maddening.

Corbyn has completely destroyed the party. It'll take years to recover.

This is like a lazier Tarmo, at least he commits to the bit.

[Gordon EF]

Do the right have anywhere near the same level of "you're too left / you're not left enought" vitriol as the left? It genuinely seems like they don't. Could be shite but I heard someone suggesting this is at least partly due to greater authoritarianism amongst those on the right. Of course they'll happily get thier hands bloody to knife their leaders but they don't seem to have the same type of infighting.

"f**k the poor?"

"Of course."

"Great, we're on the same team".

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Do the right have anywhere near the same level of "you're too left / you're not left enought" vitriol as the left? It genuinely seems like they don't. Could be shite but I heard someone suggesting this is at least partly due to greater authoritarianism amongst those on the right. Of course they'll happily get thier hands bloody to knife their leaders but they don't seem to have the same type of infighting.

"f**k the poor?"

"Of course."

"Great, we're on the same team".

 

Infighting on the right is just as brutal as it is on the left, it's just they've usually been lucky to get in power before they start knifing each other in the back. I think it's cause the left just keeps suffering defeats so there's nothing else to do but pick apart why. It's weird that the Yes campaign didn't do this but maybe that's cause in many ways it was a victory behind a temporary loss.

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by NotThePars

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Infighting and disagreements on the left are often characterised differently, with language such as 'purged' and so on.

The right also has the benefit of large parts of the media and various other outriders saying the quiet bits out loud for them. Much easier to extend the Overton window further to the right.

[Gordon EF]

31 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Infighting and disagreements on the left are often characterised differently, with language such as 'purged' and so on.

The right also has the benefit of large parts of the media and various other outriders saying the quiet bits out loud for them. Much easier to extend the Overton window further to the right.

Aye, they've done some job of encouraging that sort of 'unthinking selfishness' to effectivly shift the centre rightwards over the last few decades.

There are clearly disagreements on the right, it was more than particular kind of division between 'centre left' and 'left'. That's been an obvious schism in the Labour Partyfor as long as I can remember. Less so for the SNP but that's probably because they have independence as their core policy so it's easier to coalesce people from slightly different parts of the spectrum around that.

The right seem to fight over issues but it does seem like they just don't have as long running and deep divisions over at what point on the liberal/conservative spectrum or economic left/right spectrum you sit.

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

 

There are clearly disagreements on the right, it was more than particular kind of division between 'centre left' and 'left'. That's been an obvious schism in the Labour Partyfor as long as I can remember. Less so for the SNP but that's probably because they have independence as their core policy so it's easier to coalesce people from slightly different parts of the spectrum around that.

 

The hard left want systemic change and the soft left don't is my one sentence take that's going to get a 15 paragraph furious spittle-flecked reply from dorlomin in 6 days

[Detournement]

6 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

The right is about destroying what there is, so even minor progress there can be celebrated by all of them as partial victories. If you pull enough bricks out the bottom of a hospital it'll fall over eventually.

The left is about building something new so if there's deviations that stunt that, this causes friction.

There's also a lot of people in the 'left' who's primary goal is to prevent any genuinely left policies ever being enacted. 

All the Change UK rats walking into corporate consultancy jobs is the perfect example of that. You have Labour Party MPs who are essentially employed by arms companies, private water companies, individual billionaire's and in the case of Jess Phillips literally employed by Murdoch. 

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

The hard left want systemic change and the soft left don't is my one sentence take that's going to get a 15 paragraph furious spittle-flecked reply from dorlomin in 6 days

It's usually a Friday he goes off on coke fuelled rants. 

[BawWatchin]

Edited August 6, 2020 by BawWatchin

[Benjamin_Nevis]

She really is a hopeless, corpulent arsehole [emoji23]

[Boo Khaki]

That's offensive to anuses..

[Benjamin_Nevis]

That's offensive to anuses..

Noted. Apologies to anuses everywhere.

[Arsenal till I die]

On 05/08/2020 at 09:51, Gordon EF said:

Do the right have anywhere near the same level of "you're too left / you're not left enought" vitriol as the left? It genuinely seems like they don't. Could be shite but I heard someone suggesting this is at least partly due to greater authoritarianism amongst those on the right. Of course they'll happily get thier hands bloody to knife their leaders but they don't seem to have the same type of infighting.

"f**k the poor?"

"Of course."

"Great, we're on the same team".

Progress stated (at 4am at the latest) that Labour had a net loss of seats in 2015 due to not being right wing enough. For the record, they lost seats to the SNP who were at the time to the left of them, and away from those seats had a net gain.

[Gordon EF]

Anyone remember that Richard Leonard is actually a thing?

[Billy Jean King]

The state of Leonard delivering the no confidence motion today ! He could barely get the words out slurring as if he was jaked.

[doulikefish]

16 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

The state of Leonard delivering the no confidence motion today ! He could barely get the words out slurring as if he was jaked.

In no surprise Sir Keir doesnt think Leonard is the man to advance the labour cause in north brittania.

 

[Academically Deficient]

On 07/08/2020 at 19:52, Gordon EF said:

Anyone remember that Richard Leonard is actually a thing?

I mind Rudyard Lanyard!

Minor character in a long-running sitcom that was big in the 90s, but nobody watches anymore?

[NotThePars]

In no surprise Sir Keir doesnt think Leonard is the man to advance the labour cause in north brittania.
 

Genuinely excited to see who he thinks does. He made big noises early on in his leadership about the path to victory running through Scotland. Reckon it comes down to whether they think Ian Murray could or should take power as we all know Edinburgh South is a constituency representative of Edinburgh, the Central Belt, and Scotland as a whole.