What is the point of Labour ?

[NotThePars]

9 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I'm really enjoying how much they're eating themselves alive this time. Findlay lashing out at all and sundry with no fucks given is a laugh.

Ever since he announced his intention to stand down he's been class just diving in with two feet everywhere. 

[vikingTON]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/05/scottish-labour-leader-richard-leonard-defies-new-moves-to-oust-him

Anas Sarwar now being touted as the next useless waste of skin leader of the branch office.

Watching these clowns try to explain their demise to Lib Dem levels of irrelevance is more intensely savoury than a fine Cullen skunk.

[vikingTON]

NB: If they end up finishing beneath the Greens as well next May then I might just rupture my spleen with laughter. That's the limit of Scottish Labour's political ambition right now: just let that sink in.

[Dunning1874]

8 hours ago, virginton said:

NB: If they end up finishing beneath the Greens as well next May then I might just rupture my spleen with laughter. That's the limit of Scottish Labour's political ambition right now: just let that sink in.

Finishing below the Greens will probably be for 2026, with the obvious caveat of constitutional change which may take place before then. Polls suggest they'll end up on 17 seats or thereabouts next year, which would be in line with their trend of losing six or seven seats a time, the 2016 collapse an outlier.

Obviously you'd think they'll bottom out somewhere and that performance next year would see them becoming a list only party (they've only got 3 constituencies left as it is) so between 15-20 might be their natural bottom point, as there'll still be an anyone in a red rosette vote delivering them list seats.

However come 2026 we'll be 12 years since the first referendum and you'll have everyone under 30 viewing Labour as an irrelevance, having been given no reason to vote for them in their lives. As their share of the list vote naturally dwindles with pretty much no one under 40 voting for them, with the Greens seen as the only credible vote to the left of the SNP among the age group most likely to go left, it wouldn't be a massive shock to see the Greens moving into the mid teens at Labour's expense with another six or seven seat drop.

The other caveat is that if they go into next year with Anas Sarwar or Jackie Baillie in charge then all bets are off and descending to Lib Dem levels immediately is a possibility.

[invergowrie arab]

There was a always the "Labour left me" crowd waiting for the Prince over the water to come back in the form of a socialist Labour party (despite no such incarnation of Labour having  existed since the 40s).

However, for every one of them there is now a whole generation of voters under 40 who have always thought Labour were shit.

17 seats seems a decent return for such a toxic brand 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There was a always the "Labour left me" crowd waiting for the Prince over the water to come back in the form of a socialist Labour party (despite no such incarnation of Labour having  existed since the 40s).
However, for every one of them there is now a whole generation of voters under 40 who have always thought Labour were shit.
17 seats seems a decent return for such a toxic brand 

Those who say Labour left them are right in the sense that with Blair they clearly did move to the right.

I remember joining Labour as a student - politically I was on the right of the party - by the time I left 8 years later I was on the left of the party - it wasn't me that had shifted but the Labour Party.

[NotThePars]

Any shift back to the left looked completely hollow as well. You can’t build a socialist party around Richard Leonard, Monica Lennon and Neil Findlay with the rest clearly falling in line reluctantly. Even someone as prominent as Paul Sweeney was clearly a fair weather fan even if he did sometimes have his finger on the pulse a bit better than loads of those around him.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[HTG]

13 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Boy's spot on lol. Absolutely nothing to do with Better Together, jumping in with the Tories, the horsemen of the apocalypse in the week before the vote and Ed "soldiers on the border" Miliband. 

[Dunning1874]

Who can forget Labour's 2015 collapse under the leadership of known left-wing firebrand, Corbynista and alleged rabid Stalinist, erm, Jim Murphy?

[NotThePars]

Down in England at the weekend and was reading a bit of their papers. It’s funny to note that while Starmer has been slaughtered by the left online for Labour leaping to the defence of the right wing press being blockaded by XR he’s also been slaughtered in those same papers for his allegedly mealy-mouthed and delayed response.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

10 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Down in England at the weekend and was reading a bit of their papers. It’s funny to note that while Starmer has been slaughtered by the left online for Labour leaping to the defence of the right wing press being blockaded by XR he’s also been slaughtered in those same papers for his allegedly mealy-mouthed and delayed response.

The Kavanaugh column in the sun is quite the article btw.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

to think that we take the piss out of America for Fox News. This is Britain's biggest selling newspaper. Just completely batshit crazy.

[NotThePars]

to think that we take the piss out of America for Fox News. This is Britain's biggest selling newspaper. Just completely batshit crazy.

I was reading the Sunday edition and it’s been wall-to-wall class how mad they are. It says a lot that the most level headed columnist of the day was Karren Brady.

[Boo Khaki]

The only thing that scares me about Jackie Baillie is the prospect of being sat on by her.

[Wee Willie]

On 06/09/2020 at 12:52, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Those who say Labour left them are right in the sense that with Blair they clearly did move to the right.

I remember joining Labour as a student - politically I was on the right of the party - by the time I left 8 years later I was on the left of the party - it wasn't me that had shifted but the Labour Party.

I worked most of my life in the railways.

I asked the union for a form to fill in to stop my contributions to the Labour Party.

I was branded as a tartan Tory.

Now, the Labour Party  are the Red Tories.

33 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

The only thing that scares me about Jackie Baillie is the prospect of being sat on by her.

[Dunning1874]

Call me cynical, but it's almost as if Starmer having the exact opposite stance on Brexit when he wasn't leader of the opposition was less about a principled position on Brexit than it was undermining the then leader of the oppostion.

[ICTJohnboy]

Starmer's been a huge disappointment as leader and is clearly very reluctant to attack BJ on Brexit, lest he upset the legions of labour voters who voted for it.

Blackford  has proved much more effective in holding BJ to account even although he has only 2 questions at PMQ's  compared to Starmer's 6. Today's PMQ's saw Starmer asking the same question on the Coronavirus test and trace fiasco 6 times.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Starmer's been a huge disappointment as leader and is clearly very reluctant to attack BJ on Brexit, lest he upset the legions of labour voters who voted for it.

Blackford  has proved much more effective in holding BJ to account even although he has only 2 questions at PMQ's  compared to Starmer's 6. Today's PMQ's saw Starmer asking the same question on the Coronavirus test and trace fiasco 6 times.

It doesn’t matter. Listening to Theo Usherwood’s “analysis” on LBC at lunchtime, it became apparent that Starmer’s narrative is a prewritten media construct. According to Usherwood, Starmer is providing a measured alternative to Johnson, and holding the government up to scrutiny in a way Corbyn never did - much to the delight of those lovely backbench Tories who really just wanted sound opposition all along so they could be a better government (yes, this was his genuine analysis and interpretation). Starmer is, further, apparently reflecting the good, safe views of middle England, and that’s jolly good. No boat is being rocked.

The media has already decided that bad, useless Corbyn (who didn’t play their game) is mercifully gone and in his place is a wonderful, safe stuffed shirt, who will be rewarded with friendly press and a false image of his being a great politician and scrutiniser of the government.

Starmer is 100% a beige, media-friendly establishment lackey and he doesn’t have to actually do or say anything - and especially not anything that suggests he has opinions on anything remotely controversial or important. The media will report him doing as they expect him to do regardless - and that is to be a tame Tory enabler.

[NotThePars]

58 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

They're going to ratfuck him anyway at the next election

If they need to they'll build up a 'competent' Tory and steal his entire schtick.