What is the point of Labour ?

[mizfit]

What are the chances of Labour holding onto wales at the next Welsh Election?

[RiG]

"What have the Scottish Government spent money trying to prepare for the NHS being overwhelmed in Scotland?"

 

[NotThePars]

Keir apparently abstaining on the Great Replacement

[oneteaminglasgow]

31 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

Keir apparently abstaining on the Great Replacement

 

I know that planting himself firmly on the fence seems to be his entire brand, but you’d have thought he could take a side on “white genocide”

[Arsenal till I die]

On 11/12/2020 at 15:44, mizfit said:

What are the chances of Labour holding onto wales at the next Welsh Election?

Good question. As NS regularly points out at FMQ's, they haven't performed as well as the Scottish government, although they've still done better than the UK government (which she has also pointed out at the same time, to be fair). They are also nowhere near as bad as Scottish Labour, and they may even turn in favour of independence. Language is a big issue, a lot of monolingual English speakers there have a kind of language nationalism about them. The English get blamed which flies in the face of the facts - most of the English are in Gwynedd (it's nice) which is solidly pro independence, PC voting and bilingual. I also believe Wales has less powers than Scotland, so less to blame the government for.

In my opinion, the SNP and SF need to team up and demand a referendum for Scotland or NI. If the UK government says no to both, they need to throw their weight behind Welsh independence. It's tough, but if the Welsh voters can be shown a UK that is denying referenda left, right and centre, they might be persuaded to vote for one. Then, if they can be convinced "Vote Yes or you won't get another one", then the break up of the Empire should commence. 

I should add in some personal experience here as well. We had a caravan in Gwynedd and regularly went on holiday there for the 1st 2 decades of my life. I can't be the only English person for this to happen to, but being there, where just about everyone can speak Welsh, must have really affected my politics (that and growing up in multi cultural London). You just really feel, literally standing on the mountain, "this land doesn't belong to England". This is why I feel that the amount of English in Snowdonia and Snowdonia's high support for independence shouldn't be contradictory. We were near Fairborne, which was featured on the BBC site. They done a segment of how it could become the first town in the UK abandoned to rising sea levels. Most of the people in the programme being interviewed have English accents. The nearby Talyllyn (Skarloey) Railway was pretty much revived by Brummies as well.

Another bit of personal experience is I used to help out Welsh Labour round Wrexham way. I never heard one bad word against independence (it would have registered, as I was already in favour of indy), no sure I even heard a bad word about Plaid either. 

[welshbairn]

Had to google "groyping".

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3exp3/groyping-far-right-propaganda-tool-alt-right

Hippies have taken a sharp plunge in my estimation.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by welshbairn

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, Arsenal till I die said:

Another bit of personal experience is I used to help out Welsh Labour round Wrexham way. I never heard one bad word against independence (it would have registered, as I was already in favour of indy), no sure I even heard a bad word about Plaid either. 

Easy to be nonchalant about something you don't see as a threat. It'd be interesting to see if that attitude changes if PC were to start winning elections and polls showed a big surge towards independence.

 

[DrewDon]

4 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

lol f**k around and find out

 

That is so not Rainbow Rhythms. 

[welshbairn]

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

What an utter ham salad of a man he is.

[CambieBud]

What an utter ham salad of a man he is.

He comes across as a man bereft of ideas, desperate not to rock the boat. Remember that Sir Keir was at the forefront of Labour’s second referendum campaign but now has a Damascene conversion to supporting the abortion that is Brexit. Where are the Labour voices condemning this absurd position? Or are they all just like the weasel unionist Ian Murray?

[Academically Deficient]

I actually heard that LBC interview live (still can't get the car dab radio working properly) and I think he's been misrepresented slightly.

The context is: the presenter is an unpleasant right-wing controversialist, the audience (or those that call in anyway) seem pretty right-wing. Then on comes this initially friendly sounding woman, and starts banging on about her husband being a Millwall fan.

No fan of Starmer, but he was probably just trying to get out of there without giving them any unwarranted attention or creating drama. He also told her a couple of times he disagreed with her.

You dont always need to full Owen Jones to make a point (never go full Owen Jones).

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I dunno, it kind of feels like we've spent the last four years screaming at a Labour leader to apologise for everyone's racism. 

So it seems kind of weird we're giving a Labour leader a free pass when someone quotes great replacement stuff at him and he doesn't call it out 

[G51]

 

 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Academically Deficient said:

I actually heard that LBC interview live (still can't get the car dab radio working properly) and I think he's been misrepresented slightly.

The context is: the presenter is an unpleasant right-wing controversialist, the audience (or those that call in anyway) seem pretty right-wing. Then on comes this initially friendly sounding woman, and starts banging on about her husband being a Millwall fan.

No fan of Starmer, but he was probably just trying to get out of there without giving them any unwarranted attention or creating drama. He also told her a couple of times he disagreed with her.

You dont always need to full Owen Jones to make a point (never go full Owen Jones).

Aye, being questioned on her claim that whites will be a minority in the UK by 2060 or whatever she said was exactly what she wanted. Ignoring it apart from saying he disagreed meant that most people probably didn't even notice what she said.

[Academically Deficient]

1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I dunno, it kind of feels like we've spent the last four years screaming at a Labour leader to apologise for everyone's racism. 

So it seems kind of weird we're giving a Labour leader a free pass when someone quotes great replacement stuff at him and he doesn't call it out 

But the woman was clearly nuts. You dont really gain anything by arguing with a nutter, all you do is give them validation and attention. He told her she was wrong.

Better to let the listeners draw their own conclusions. I concluded the woman was probably a racist headcase. 

I dont know why he even bothered going on. I doubt he's going to convert any callers to Nick Ferari on LBC breakfast phone in

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I dunno, it kind of feels like we've spent the last four years screaming at a Labour leader to apologise for everyone's racism. 

So it seems kind of weird we're giving a Labour leader a free pass when someone quotes great replacement stuff at him and he doesn't call it out 

Aye but the Nazi woman was clever because she set the trap that if Starmer was going to call her out he would also have to call out the Israeli  Nation State law passed in 2018.

These are the pitfalls of being a "Friend" of an apartheid Ethno-state.

[NotThePars]

Aye, being questioned on her claim that whites will be a minority in the UK by 2060 or whatever she said was exactly what she wanted. Ignoring it apart from saying he disagreed meant that most people probably didn't even notice what she said.

Does he disagree? This is what I can find from the transcript.



Now there was a rebuttal later on given by his spokesperson but that just leaves it open up to interpretation, doesn’t it? Either he didn’t quite hear what was said and responded to what he could and later on was keen to set the record straight or he realised he had fucked it and was scrambling to cover the fallout from noticeably failing to challenge the conspiracy which justified the Anders Breivik shooting.

I’ve spoken about it with members I know and I think I’m broadly more sympathetic to him than they are but also given the way Starmer has waged a totally unnecessary war on the previous leader which follows from five years of genuinely insane bad faith criticisms of Corbyn’s politics, personal character and associations it’s unsurprising that people are now launching it right back at Starmer with what might be a genuine mistake but is also easily characterised as a complete inability to challenge actual full on racism (that has justified actual terrorist atrocities (and is also endorsed with a nudge and a wink from Times writers).

I think what it shows once again is that Starmer isn’t actually a great politician or leader which is understandable given his relative inexperience but ah well, I’m sure he’ll be given time to bed in and learn on the job.

Maybe I’m wrong though and will cop it if that transcript is incorrect but it looks to me like he doesn’t actually says she’s wrong on that specific point which literally takes one second to do and move on.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I'm not sure 'we should just ignore the nazis, they'll eventually go away' is the effective tactic you think it is lads tbqfhwy.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

39 minutes ago, Academically Deficient said:

I dont know why he even bothered going on. I doubt he's going to convert any callers to Nick Ferari on LBC breakfast phone in 

These are exactly the people he's trying to win back though.