Will Scotland ever be good again?

[Self-raising Lazarus]

2 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Naw he didnae (came on as an 87th min sub)

The game started in the 87th minute imho

[ArabFC]

5 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

I think that's pretty harsh.  He struggled with injuries but still managed 150+ games in the EPL and was at Everton for 5 seasons.  He was always quite mercurial but scored some brilliant goals (albeit maybe not quite enough of them for the talent he had on his day). 

McFadden was just one of those players you see occasionally who become possessed when they pull on the national jersey.

[immcinto]

18 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

I think that's pretty harsh.  He struggled with injuries but still managed 150+ games in the EPL and was at Everton for 5 seasons.  He was always quite mercurial but scored some brilliant goals (albeit maybe not quite enough of them for the talent he had on his day). 

Maybe. There were a lot worse players than him I suppose. Barry Ferguson probably in the same category EPL-wise. 

 

Darren Fletcher is a good shout. What about the other Fletcher? At his peak he would be ahead of Che Adams

 

I don't think there are any other post 2003 that haven't been mentioned

[Stellaboz]

Nah, never been convinced by Steven Fletcher at international level. A few goals against Malta or whoever doesn't change that.

[Dons_1988]

Hutton was probably better than I thought of him at the time.

Full disclosure, I didn’t love that rangers team he was a part of and the greatest moment of Alan huttons career is being wiped out by Chris clark in front of the south stand imho. 

However, no danger he was one of the best fullbacks on the planet . He was great at bombing forward but his final execution was average at best and I think he knew it as quite clearly his primary objective once he got to the 18 yard line was to win a free kick. 

[immcinto]

4 hours ago, Stellaboz said:

Nah, never been convinced by Steven Fletcher at international level. A few goals against Malta or whoever doesn't change that.

I'm not sure i'm convinced by Che Adams either though. Quite a few games under his belt by now.

[VictorOnopko]

1 hour ago, immcinto said:

I'm not sure i'm convinced by Che Adams either though. Quite a few games under his belt by now.

Adams and Dykes are both decent, but not great, players, with pretty modest goalscoring records for their clubs.  They work hard. We've just not had an out and out, high-level goalscorer in years and years, and there's still no sign of one.  Kenny Miller was maybe the best striker we've had in the past 20 years, which is a bit of a grim thought.  Annoyingly,  Fletcher peaked at his club (double figure goals for Wolves and Sunderland in the EPL for 3 straight years) at the same time he fell out with Levein and Naismith was chosen ahead of him for Scotland.

I love the current team, but it's just as well it features a few midfielders who can and do score goals - up front is by far our weakest position atm.

Edited October 18, 2023 by VictorOnopko

[immcinto]

27 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

 We've just not had an out and out, high-level goalscorer in years and years, and there's still no sign of one. 

There is Rory Wilson at Villa. Early days yet but his stats are remarkable.

[velo army]

Steven Fletcher would have thrived hugely in this team. He chased the money at club level and ended up as a target man for lower prem pish like wolves and Burnley. He was a technical player and was wonderful as a creative forward. He would have been the perfect out ball while his range of passing and touch would have been the perfect foil for McGinn, Christie and McTominay. He should have played at a club more suited to his footballing strengths than his bank balance.

A hugely underrated Scotland player.

[craigkillie]

He went straight from the SPL to Burnley and then got relegated there and joined another newly promoted club. I don't see how that's chasing the money, it's trying to play at as high a level as his (relatively) limited ability permitted. I liked him, aside from his complete lack of professionalism when it came to Scotland, but you're making him sound like he was Dimitar Berbatov rather than just a fairly decent all-round forward.

[BFTD]

On 17/10/2023 at 09:28, Dunning1874 said:

Darren Fletcher is the obvious shout, at his 2008-10 pre-injury peak there are very few teams in Europe he wouldn't be a starter for.

If you remember, the popular opinion on here used to be that he never brought his 'A' game for Scotland, with some claiming that he'd never had an outstanding game for us.

[Alan Twelve]

20 minutes ago, BFTD said:

If you remember, the popular opinion on here used to be that he never brought his 'A' game for Scotland, with some claiming that he'd never had an outstanding game for us.

The 4-0 win in Albania in 2019 - he was absolutely tremendous that night; brilliant hold-up play, repeatedly setting up Fraser, Christie and Forrest. May well be dismissed because of the opposition, but they're not doing too badly right now either, of course.

And he also got two hat-tricks for Scotland. There's not too many have done that. Don't think he was quite the player he could have been, but there have been worse up front in the last 20 years.

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

The 4-0 win in Albania in 2019 - he was absolutely tremendous that night; brilliant hold-up play, repeatedly setting up Fraser, Christie and Forrest. May well be dismissed because of the opposition, but they're not doing too badly right now either, of course.

And he also got two hat-tricks for Scotland. There's not too many have done that. Don't think he was quite the player he could have been, but there have been worse up front in the last 20 years.

Wrong Fletcher!

[Alan Twelve]

2 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Wrong Fletcher!

Ha! Yes indeed. FFS, I'm very tired...

[Alan Twelve]

39 minutes ago, BFTD said:

If you remember, the popular opinion on here used to be that he never brought his 'A' game for Scotland, with some claiming that he'd never had an outstanding game for us.

Anyway, I always liked Fletch. Was at his competitive debut - came off the bench to score the winner against Lithuania, a sweetly struck volley from the edge of the box from memory. I'd look up when that was, but I don't want to make myself feel too old.

[Pocketman]

On 18/10/2023 at 14:39, VictorOnopko said:

 Annoyingly,  Fletcher peaked at his club (double figure goals for Wolves and Sunderland in the EPL for 3 straight years) at the same time he fell out with Levein and Naismith was chosen ahead of him for Scotland.

I love the current team, but it's just as well it features a few midfielders who can and do score goals - up front is by far our weakest position atm.

Naismith was pretty decent for us. He and Fletcher would have been pretty decent together. Stand out game for me for Naismith was at home against the Dutch under Burley (?) - Naismith was immense and additionally, seemed to win pretty much everything in the air.

[BFTD]

We're generally quite hard on our forwards - it's not their fault that none of them have been international-class goalscorers, and most have clearly been giving it their all. I was critical of Fletch, S at the time, but he had a bit of a thankless task just holding the ball up for the midfield. Not his fault if those were the instructions he was given.

Adams and Dykes are probably the best we've had in decades. Adams in particular seems to be everywhere on the field and plays a big part in creating space for other players by being a total fucking nuisance with bags of stamina. I think it was the last Spain game where the home TV cameras kept focusing on him warming up, and they clearly took him seriously as a threat when he came on. In the absence of a Lewandowski or Haaland of our own, they've been an invaluable part of our current success.

Besides, we have McGinn and McTominay. Who needs strikers.

[2426255]

31 minutes ago, BFTD said:

We're generally quite hard on our forwards - it's not their fault that none of them have been international-class goalscorers, and most have clearly been giving it their all. I was critical of Fletch, S at the time, but he had a bit of a thankless task just holding the ball up for the midfield. Not his fault if those were the instructions he was given.

Adams and Dykes are probably the best we've had in decades. Adams in particular seems to be everywhere on the field and plays a big part in creating space for other players by being a total fucking nuisance with bags of stamina. I think it was the last Spain game where the home TV cameras kept focusing on him warming up, and they clearly took him seriously as a threat when he came on. In the absence of a Lewandowski or Haaland of our own, they've been an invaluable part of our current success.

Besides, we have McGinn and McTominay. Who needs strikers.

I don't think there is anyone else who could have done better in the last two years or so. I prefer to get behind them, no point bemoaning the fact we haven't had better.

Someone could appear, things can change quite quickly - we've seen a lot of that (Keeper, RWB and even getting Adam's & Dykes to be part of the team).

[accies1874]

I find it a bit strange that Naismith only got 51 caps considering how long he was a Scotland player for. There are some players who in my head were mainstays for years but only got about 20-30 caps. 

[PrestersKTID]

1 minute ago, accies1874 said:

I find it a bit strange that Naismith only got 51 caps considering how long he was a Scotland player for. There are some players who in my head were mainstays for years but only got about 20-30 caps. 

Lots of injuries for Naismith and likes of steven fletcher had beef with Levein so probably missed out on 20 odd caps. Naismith was competing with Miller/Mcfadden etc.

Thought that aswell that players from last 25 years or so struggled to get over 50 caps. Lack of international tournaments costs a few caps every 2 years but there were a lot more call offs in that time. Had a reluctance from certain managers to put players in earlier. Calum Mcgregor was due a cap for a year or 2 before he got one. Jordan Rhodes and ross mccormack scoring for fun but hardly had a sniff.

Mcfadden not getting to the 50 was always a shame, Maloney too.

Fletcher, Gordon, Miller, Robertson, Mcginn, Mcgregor, Brown, Caldwell, Naismith and Hutton the only ones debuting after 2000 with over 50 caps.

Tom Boyd, Weir, Dailly, Kev Gallacher and Colin Hendry all got caps after 2000 but for most their caps were earned before that time. 

 

Now though you have likes of Hanley, Mctominay, Armstrong, Christie, Tierney that should comfortably make it over 50. 

Dykes, Mclean, Mckenna all over 30 and a bunch of other players on good totals at a young age. Makes a big difference.