Competing with English Football

[Swello]

20 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

As I said, my sole interest in Scottish football is St Mirren. I have no interest in watching Hamilton v Motherwell played in a two-sided stadium, nor do I have any interest in Kilmarnock v Dundee, played on an absolutely shite plastic pitch, in front of 4,500 fans. I would however expect Killie and Dundee fans to be very interested in it, as they should be.

I think this is fair enough. I would guess that - even on a site that is by definition filled with people who are interested in Scottish Football - there will be a relatively small percentage that will habitually sit through 90 mins of bottom 6 teams playing each other on the rare occasion when they are the match choice or on Alba. But, I guess there is a far higher percentage who are interested in the goals/incidents/extended highlights of the other teams' games (and it would be great if a TV deal reflected that and gave us that ability). 

Speaking as someone who has ZERO interest in English football (don't "support" a team, shout "YAAAAS" in a wetherspoons on a Sunday when Man U score and my sole interaction is an occasional watch of MOTD) - the thing that I find weird is that the games between total non-entities like Watford and Bournemouth are somehow meant to be more worthy of attention than stuff in a league that I do care about, regardless of the number of stands. I could name loads of Accies or Killie players, I know supporters of those teams and their games have a direct influence on my team - the English stuff has none of that. I'm not naive - I get that Man U - Liverpool or Spurs-Arsenal, etc are big games/occasions that a neutral can enjoy and that's totally fine - but the meaningless games and the big teams skittling the smaller teams are an utter irrelevance to me.

[pozbaird]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

 

“I support Newcastle as their kit is like st mirren”

 

And with that, I am out.

So, two Aberdeen fans pick out the bit about the kit, but completely left out the bit where I said I have always liked the city of Newcastle, the Geordies, and that it's a 'one team one city' place which appeals to me?

Fair enough, but my post in its entirety is there for all to see. Knock yersels' out though with your selective quoting lads.

[pozbaird]

57 minutes ago, Swello said:

I think this is fair enough. I would guess that - even on a site that is by definition filled with people who are interested in Scottish Football - there will be a relatively small percentage that will habitually sit through 90 mins of bottom 6 teams playing each other on the rare occasion when they are the match choice or on Alba. But, I guess there is a far higher percentage who are interested in the goals/incidents/extended highlights of the other teams' games (and it would be great if a TV deal reflected that and gave us that ability). 

Speaking as someone who has ZERO interest in English football (don't "support" a team, shout "YAAAAS" in a wetherspoons on a Sunday when Man U score and my sole interaction is an occasional watch of MOTD) - the thing that I find weird is that the games between total non-entities like Watford and Bournemouth are somehow meant to be more worthy of attention than stuff in a league that I do care about, regardless of the number of stands. I could name loads of Accies or Killie players, I know supporters of those teams and their games have a direct influence on my team - the English stuff has none of that. I'm not naive - I get that Man U - Liverpool or Spurs-Arsenal, etc are big games/occasions that a neutral can enjoy and that's totally fine - but the meaningless games and the big teams skittling the smaller teams are an utter irrelevance to me.

Fair enough. Each to their own, like everything. Another example being that I like rugby league, have followed Manly Sea Eagles in the NRL since 1983, but despite being Scottish and us being a rugby union kinda' place, I personally could not give a toss about rugby union. I do not like it, bores the tits off me.

Then again, I am a massive NFL fan, which undoubtably, bores the tits off many on here.

Whatever floats your boat. Watching Celtic scud diddies 99% of the time, or watching St Johnstone fight with Killie for a 'coveted' top 6 spot? Sorry, I'd rather listen to all of Radiohead's post-OK Computer output, and fcuk sake, that's saying something.

[tree house tam]

Radiohead are pish.

[pozbaird]

Still, it's been enlightening. I've learned that to admit to watching English football, but not Scottish, unless it's my own team, is tantamount to treason. I'll live.

[EdTheDuck]

5 hours ago, betting competition said:

You can see the viewing figures if you download the excel sheet from an excellent blog done by a Celtic fan:

http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/167136335136/spfl-viewing-figures-201718

English Premiership has 819,000 on average for the 2016-17 season while Scottish Premier League had about 150,000 so about 5.4 times more viewers.  

 

On the face of it 1:5 is a pretty good ration for a country with just 8% of the UK population.  Yes, I know, if SKY showed Man U & Liverpool games 80% of the time that 819,000 average would be significantly higher but they don't and it isn't.

Maybe the SPFL should demand a similar ratio for payments as the EPL gets.

Therefore, using a simple mathematical formula I reckon SKY should be paying about £50M for their 30 SPFL games

SKY pay £1.193bn for 128 games, that's £9.3M per game. Divide that by the 1;5.4 ratio for Scottish viewers and the per game value is £1.725M X 30 games = £51M

With BT paying a similar per game value for their 32 EPL games (£9.2M) they should pay a similar amount for their 30 SPFL games.

So we can expect the SPFL to be paid around £100M per season!

Of course the above is fucking nonsense but it does throw into sharp relief just how badly our football is being ripped off by the  English broadcasters. £16M is scandalous.

[IrishBhoy]

The problem for the SPFL when they go to negotiate the TV contract is that I’m not sure Sky would be too bothered to lose Scottish football altogether. That would leave BT as the only viable option and they are hardly going to pay over the odds if they are the only bidder for the rights. 

[EdTheDuck]

5 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

The problem for the SPFL when they go to negotiate the TV contract is that I’m not sure Sky would be too bothered to lose Scottish football altogether. That would leave BT as the only viable option and they are hardly going to pay over the odds if they are the only bidder for the rights. 

I know, that's why I said my calculations are nonsense.  However, that doesn't change the fact that £16M is an insult.

[Ludo*1]

BT are under severe pressure to reign in their spending as the amount they've bid on sports has been hugely controversial and has played a part in their CEO being punted. 

I'd like to see an online market such as Facebook/Amazon/Netflix to get involved. 

[lanky_ffc]

5 hours ago, pozbaird said:

Well, it is more level in some ways. Clubs like Newcastle and Everton, West Ham and so on get huge crowds in huge stadiums. Go down the leagues and there’s a big club with a big support in Leeds, Aston Villa... and those big attendances are based on nothing to do with which school you went to, which isn’t the case up here. I happen to support Newcastle , due to their kit being the same as St Mirren’s and I have always enjoyed the city of Newcastle, and its ‘one city one team’ atmosphere.

As I said, my sole interest in Scottish football is St Mirren. I have no interest in watching Hamilton v Motherwell played in a two-sided stadium, nor do I have any interest in Kilmarnock v Dundee, played on an absolutely shite plastic pitch, in front of 4,500 fans. I would however expect Killie and Dundee fans to be very interested in it, as they should be.

If that annoys you, so be it. Roll on the EPL and NFL seasons, and of course, the darling Buddies of Dismay...

They might get huge crowds, but it doesn't translate into them being able to compete with the top clubs. 

Doesn't annoy me at all. I watch and enjoy English football just as I watch and enjoy a number of European leagues. I just don't feel the need to emphasise how much better it is than everything on Scottish football forum. 

[pozbaird]

20 minutes ago, lanky_ffc said:

They might get huge crowds, but it doesn't translate into them being able to compete with the top clubs. 

Doesn't annoy me at all. I watch and enjoy English football just as I watch and enjoy a number of European leagues. I just don't feel the need to emphasise how much better it is than everything on Scottish football forum. 

I don’t think everything about English football is better. I would never claim it is better than Spanish or German football. Indeed, I posted that it is fcuked in the head in many regards. I have seen St Mirren games that have been more exciting than some (for example) Liverpool v Jose Mourinho Man Utd shitfests. I have went down there and witnessed some great games - was at the game when Sunderland scudded Chelsea 4-1 and Kevin Phillips scored a belter. A Newcastle v Fulham game was excellent... and a Newcastle v Arsenal game was pish. Some you win, some you lose.

The atmosphere at all EPL games I’ve been at, at Newcastle, Anfield, and Elland Road, has been superb, and I enjoyed the big game atmosphere and the 40,000 plus crowds - with songbooks about their team. To replicate the 50,000 atmosphere in a club game up here? No thanks, you know who is involved.

I simply have little interest in watching Dunfermline, Dundee or Hearts etc, unless they are playing St Mirren. My interest in watching Lazio, Borussia Dortmund or Marseille is at the same level - zero.

I’m looking forward to St Mirren’s season, and the EPL, and NFL. As a Manly Sea Eagles fan though, the NRL season cannot end soon enough!

[Peppino Impastato]

6 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

Fair points and obviously you can watch whatever football takes your fancy. I am the exact opposite though. I would rather watch Hamilton V Motherwell on a shitey plastic pitch in a 2 sided stadium over Arsenal v Chelsea or Man Utd v Liverpool. 

Watching 21 year old football players that make more in a week than most football supporters earn in 2 or 3 years isn’t for me. Add in the sanitised atmosphere with almost every corner or throw in having the crowd sitting videoing the players for some reason,  tourists taking over most of the big English clubs stadiums also. 

I would rather watch a bunch of Hamilton Accies hatchet men making thigh high tackles, scraps all over the pitch and the odd bit of football breaking out. As I said earlier the Edinburgh derby is a proper game of football with more excitement in 10 minutes than you get in a weekend of Sky’s EPL output. 

One of the Burnley players, can't remember who, said after the Aberdeen game he really enjoyed it cause you never get an atmosphere like that in the premiership.  Proper atmosphere, the premiership is very sterile as you say.  And he fkn plays in it, you'd think he's pretty well placed to comment.

[Peppino Impastato]

43 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I don’t think everything about English football is better. I would never claim it is better than Spanish or German football. Indeed, I posted that it is fcuked in the head in many regards. I have seen St Mirren games that have been more exciting than some (for example) Liverpool v Jose Mourinho Man Utd shitfests. I have went down there and witnessed some great games - was at the game when Sunderland scudded Chelsea 4-1 and Kevin Phillips scored a belter. A Newcastle v Fulham game was excellent... and a Newcastle v Arsenal game was pish. Some you win, some you lose.

The atmosphere at all EPL games I’ve been at, at Newcastle, Anfield, and Elland Road, has been superb, and I enjoyed the big game atmosphere and the 40,000 plus crowds - with songbooks about their team. To replicate the 50,000 atmosphere in a club game up here? No thanks, you know who is involved.

I simply have little interest in watching Dunfermline, Dundee or Hearts etc, unless they are playing St Mirren. My interest in watching Lazio, Borussia Dortmund or Marseille is at the same level - zero.

I’m looking forward to St Mirren’s season, and the EPL, and NFL. As a Manly Sea Eagles fan though, the NRL season cannot end soon enough!

I always say people with your attitude aren't actually football fans.  You don't like football, you like the tribalism around it.  I just like the game, so I want to watch the best football I can.  If you don't want to watch Dortmund or barca or juventus (same strip as at mirren) you don't like football, these are the best teams in the world.  I find it hard to understand why any football fan wouldn't want to watch that.

[Marten]

I've lived in England for 9 years. In those years, I haven't been to a single PL game. Yet, I have been to loads of games in the lower leagues and non-league. I've not deliberately been boycotting the PL, had my local team Derby County actually been promoted once, I'd probably have seen them in the PL. It just doesn't attract me enough. Give me a nice National League North ground any time over Old Trafford or something...

[TheScarf]

American Football is worse than Hitler.

[pozbaird]

9 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

I always say people with your attitude aren't actually football fans.  You don't like football, you like the tribalism around it.  I just like the game, so I want to watch the best football I can.  If you don't want to watch Dortmund or barca or juventus (same strip as at mirren) you don't like football, these are the best teams in the world.  I find it hard to understand why any football fan wouldn't want to watch that.

What utter rubbish. There’s almost 24/7 365 days a year football on TV somewhere, from Europe to South America, to the J League, A League, and now the Chinese Superleague. All I said is I don’t sit down to watch those leagues, I watch the EPL because as a football fan, yes, a football fan, who has grown up in the UK, I have an interest in, and something of an understanding of, English football teams and their cities. Not a football fan? I was at Johnstone Burgh’s Scottish Junior Cup win, and was a regular at Keanie Park in the late 60s and 70s. I was sat in the main stand with relatives as a kid and watched the 1971 Partick Thistle League Cup win over Celtic. I travelled midweek regularly to St Mirren away games in the bloody Anglo Scottish Cup.

Now I’m a bit older, I choose to watch English football on TV and try to get to a few games, but I have no interest in Dutch, Chinese or Spanish football. Big deal. Everyone likes their own thing.

[Killie87]

I agree with most posts on here that we should not compare ourselves with the EPL or even the lower leagues in england, financially its a different ball game, seen some of the posts mentioning killie and the empty ground, yep its p**h but the ground was built when we were getting much larger crowds than we are getting now and it would be sh**e to tell fans to sit behind the goals and the main stand just to keep the TV companies happy.

 

I am liking on social media the we are no taking any p**h from you Doncaster, Hartlepool fans etc when they mock our game, as one of the previous posts said we have a different product to sell and personally its so much better than the EPL and its souless mince.

 

Give me a home or away day anywhere in Scotland over Liverpool v Brighton 

[tree house tam]

13 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

What utter rubbish. There’s almost 24/7 365 days a year football on TV somewhere, from Europe to South America, to the J League, A League, and now the Chinese Superleague. All I said is I don’t sit down to watch those leagues, I watch the EPL because as a football fan, yes, a football fan, who has grown up in the UK, I have an interest in, and something of an understanding of, English football teams and their cities. Not a football fan? I was at Johnstone Burgh’s Scottish Junior Cup win, and was a regular at Keanie Park in the late 60s and 70s. I was sat in the main stand with relatives as a kid and watched the 1971 Partick Thistle League Cup win over Celtic. I travelled midweek regularly to St Mirren away games in the bloody Anglo Scottish Cup.

Now I’m a bit older, I choose to watch English football on TV and try to get to a few games, but I have no interest in Dutch, Chinese or Spanish football. Big deal. Everyone likes their own thing.

Yes you are a football fan.

 

 

 

 

The fucking worst kind of football fan.

[Dons_1988]

14 hours ago, pozbaird said:

So, two Aberdeen fans pick out the bit about the kit, but completely left out the bit where I said I have always liked the city of Newcastle, the Geordies, and that it's a 'one team one city' place which appeals to me?

Fair enough, but my post in its entirety is there for all to see. Knock yersels' out though with your selective quoting lads.

Each to their own, but it's the same reaction I give to Aberdonians who support Man U "because of Fergie".  

[Green Day]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Each to their own, but it's the same reaction I give to Aberdonians who support Man U "because of Fergie".  

To be fair, they probably also live in Kent, same as most Man U fans