Granny Danger Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: I agree. I see the right-wing campaign to smear Corbyn as exactly what it is. However, Corbyn is doing himself no favours. He's allowing himself to be painted as a bit of a nutcase extremist...as a Socialist who's left-wing ideology is really the only thing he cares about. In fact, I'm sure Corbyn is proud of being painted that way because that's exactly who and what he is. And his supporters think he's wonderful because of that. However, that ideology is never, ever in a million years going to win over the centre ground in UK politics, which is what Labour need to do if they're ever going to get these Tories out of power. What's happening at the moment is that the vacuum at the centre ground of UK politics is being filled by the far-right, and before you know it (probably right after March next year), they'll be in total control of the Tories and in charge of forming policy in post-Brexit Westminster. Instead of f*cking off to lay wreathes for Palestinians, or spending his time arguing about Israel, Corbyn should be fighting tooth and nail for those in the UK who are already feeling disenfrachised and marginalised by what's happening in the country. If he can't do that....and every single indication is that he has no interest in the middle-ground or fighting to stop Brexit or even winning elections....he should step down and let someone take over who can. The worst PM ever, and the worst leader of the opposition, ever. F*ck me, what a rancid country. I wouldn’t agree that Corbyn is the worst leader of the opposition, I do agree that his unwillingness to compromise may end up being a betrayal of those ordinary voters who are dependent upon him to get rid of an austerity driven government. Part of the issue is the past leaders whose ‘compromises’ have effectively been Tory light policies. Both Corbyn and his Momemtum supporters will want to avoid that but are being too dogmatic IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 48 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: I agree. I see the right-wing campaign to smear Corbyn as exactly what it is. However, Corbyn is doing himself no favours. He's allowing himself to be painted as a bit of a nutcase extremist...as a Socialist who's left-wing ideology is really the only thing he cares about. In fact, I'm sure Corbyn is proud of being painted that way because that's exactly who and what he is. And his supporters think he's wonderful because of that. However, that ideology is never, ever in a million years going to win over the centre ground in UK politics, which is what Labour need to do if they're ever going to get these Tories out of power. What's happening at the moment is that the vacuum at the centre ground of UK politics is being filled by the far-right, and before you know it (probably right after March next year), they'll be in total control of the Tories and in charge of forming policy in post-Brexit Westminster. Instead of f*cking off to lay wreathes for Palestinians, or spending his time arguing about Israel, Corbyn should be fighting tooth and nail for those in the UK who are already feeling disenfrachised and marginalised by what's happening in the country. If he can't do that....and every single indication is that he has no interest in the middle-ground or fighting to stop Brexit or even winning elections....he should step down and let someone take over who can. The worst PM ever, and the worst leader of the opposition, ever. F*ck me, what a rancid country. ^^^^ Totally nailed it with that. 24 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I wouldn’t agree that Corbyn is the worst leader of the opposition, I do agree that his unwillingness to compromise may end up being a betrayal of those ordinary voters who are dependent upon him to get rid of an austerity driven government. Part of the issue is the past leaders whose ‘compromises’ have effectively been Tory light policies. Both Corbyn and his Momemtum supporters will want to avoid that but are being too dogmatic IMO. Who was a worse leader of any opposition than Corbyn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 36 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I wouldn’t agree that Corbyn is the worst leader of the opposition, I do agree that his unwillingness to compromise may end up being a betrayal of those ordinary voters who are dependent upon him to get rid of an austerity driven government. Part of the issue is the past leaders whose ‘compromises’ have effectively been Tory light policies. Both Corbyn and his Momemtum supporters will want to avoid that but are being too dogmatic IMO. The centre ground in UK politics is, and always has been, 'Tory-light'. No country can possibly exist in any capable form if it's controlled by left-wing dogma. The trick is to find a middle ground where capitalism runs hand in hand with decent social policies. In the UK at the moment we've either got the fanatics of the right, or the ideologists of the left in the two main parties. What's left for those millions and millions of voters who want neither ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Corbyn is literally proposing capitalism that runs hand in hand with decent social policies. None of it is that radical despite the collective shitting itself of the press. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdog Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 8 hours ago, NotThePars said: Ooft. Dishing out a telt for once. Oh the irony ... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1524552/Israel-celebrates-Irgun-hotel-bombers.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said: ^^^^ Totally nailed it with that. Who was a worse leader of any opposition than Corbyn? Micheal Howard. IDS. Willie Hague. You can also throw in Ed Milliband who watered down his politics and got branded Red Ed and recieved anti semitic abuse regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: Corbyn is literally proposing capitalism that runs hand in hand with decent social policies. None of it is that radical despite the collective shitting itself of the press. Maybe, but I doubt if that's what the majority of the public believe. The right-wing press are succesfully painting him as a nutcase extremist....in fact, even The Guardian is critical of his interventions in Palestine and Israel.....and he's doing nothing at all to counter that. Corbyn seems unable to find the right balance between principles and political common-sense, and if he can't do that he's f*cking useless as leader of the biggest party in opposition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Maybe, but I doubt if that's what the majority of the public believe. The right-wing press are succesfully painting him as a nutcase extremist....in fact, even The Guardian is critical of his interventions in Palestine and Israel.....and he's doing nothing at all to counter that. Corbyn seems unable to find the right balance between principles and political common-sense, and if he can't do that he's f*cking useless as leader of the biggest party in opposition. That’s true. I think the media will savage whoever’s in charge of Labour unless they anoint whoever the right wing press decide is amenable to them which defeats the point entirely . Ed Miliband showed that. I personally would’ve probably preferred McDonnell as he’s probably cleverer and more combative, if more likely to inspire revulsion, than Corbyn is. At the same time I dunno how powerful the press really is anymore though. Labour still polled 40% and independence hit 45% despite both having the press ranged against it. The left, in the UK at least, seem to have social media locked down much better than traditional print media and the Tory establishment. Reaching younger voters and people that don’t vote could end up being where the parties need to go and it’s Labour, or Yes up here, that are doing that better as it stands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: ^^^^ Totally nailed it with that. Who was a worse leader of any opposition than Corbyn? Michael Foot. Same problem as Corbyn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, HTG said: Michael Foot. Same problem as Corbyn. I liked Michael Foot but would agree he was a pretty inept leader. Worse than Corbyn? I don't think so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said: The centre ground in UK politics is, and always has been, 'Tory-light'. No country can possibly exist in any capable form if it's controlled by left-wing dogma. The trick is to find a middle ground where capitalism runs hand in hand with decent social policies. In the UK at the moment we've either got the fanatics of the right, or the ideologists of the left in the two main parties. What's left for those millions and millions of voters who want neither ? So tel me, then - which of the Labour Party manifesto policies do you see as unattractive and not worthy of a decent society aspiring to? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdog Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 18 hours ago, Detournement said: Is the wreath photo where he is holding it not for the air strike in Tunis? Netanyahu celebrating the anniversary of the Irgun terrorists who slaughtered hundreds, including nearly 100 in the King David Hotel many of the British. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/opinion/.premium-hamas-and-the-irgun-how-dare-i-compare-the-two-1.5378098 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: So tel me, then - which of the Labour Party manifesto policies do you see as unattractive and not worthy of a decent society aspiring to? Remind us of their policy on maintaining and renewing Britain's nuclear arsenal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Remind us of their policy on maintaining and renewing Britain's nuclear arsenal.Labour committed to the renewal of the deterrent, while committing to leading multilateral moves to create a nuke-free world. I'm not happy with it, and I know or Leader isn't, but it's a(very small) step in the right direction. Anything else, now your snaffled this week's most obvious bait? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Labour committed to the renewal of the deterrent, while committing to leading multilateral moves to create a nuke-free world. I'm not happy with it, and I know or Leader isn't, but it's a(very small) step in the right direction. Anything else, now your snaffled this week's most obvious bait?How does Labour now stand on its famous 'light-touch' regulation of the City and the finance sector in general ? I take it that still applies, or what have I missed ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 You've missed Labour returning to its roots after years of right wing policies dressed up as some ridiculous "third way". You really could try reading the 2017 manifesto, and not the Fail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 People who don’t like Corbyn’s left wing politics will attack him any way they can. He’s too left wing, he’s not left wing enough, he’s not prepared to compromise, he’s sold out on Trident. The thing is I support the bulk of Corbyn’s policies and think they would be better for the U.K. as a whole than the Tories. I am pretty sure he has also said he would not stand in the way of a further Independence referendum. My biggest gripe with Corbyn is Brexit; not just his personal position but the fact that he is trying to railroad that position rather than inviting a democratic debate and decision. It’s the sort of undemocratic shenanigans that I would have expected from Brown, Blair, Smith, Kinnock, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: You've missed Labour returning to its roots after years of right wing policies dressed up as some ridiculous "third way". You really could try reading the 2017 manifesto, and not the Fail. The Nationalists on here exist in a reality where the 2017 Labour Manifesto and the Wilson Growth Commision do not exist. Edited August 14, 2018 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 This is the time that Labour reform the house of lords etc.....honest it will be this time....or maybe the next or the next or the next blah blah blah 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 You've missed Labour returning to its roots after years of right wing policies dressed up as some ridiculous "third way". You really could try reading the 2017 manifesto, and not the Fail. If only Corbyn exhibited such passion.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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