Israel lobby v Corbyn

[Guest]

Just now, Detournement said:

Aye Tom Watson,  Blair, Streeting and Margaret Hodge. 

 

I'd agree with that.

Expel them from the party and then they can join the Tories where I'm sure they'd be far more at home.

[D.A.F.C]

This morning on five live breakfast nicky clark was totally biased and shouting down a lawyer who represents Corbyn.
Any time she tried to prove a point she was interrupted.
Theres a definite agenda here and the bbc are backing the smear campaign.
I'm not saying I agree with what Corbyn is saying but theres massive double standards when boris can get away with letterbox comments and other anti Muslim stuff.
Anyone who stands up for Palestine is seemingly a massive anti semite. What a load of pish

[Granny Danger]

16 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

This morning on five live breakfast nicky clark was totally biased and shouting down a lawyer who represents Corbyn.
Any time she tried to prove a point she was interrupted.
Theres a definite agenda here and the bbc are backing the smear campaign.
I'm not saying I agree with what Corbyn is saying but theres massive double standards when boris can get away with letterbox comments and other anti Muslim stuff.
Anyone who stands up for Palestine is seemingly a massive anti semite. What a load of pish

Heard a part of that.  I thought the woman was very good, coherent and effective despite constant interruptions.

Her point about a Jewish group trying to shut a pro-Palestine conference on the basis that it was anti-Semitic is emblematic of the false accusations being made by pro-Zionists.

[Detournement]

It's only going to ramp up as the options are No Deal Brexit or Corbyn as PM. 

Watson and his backers will make a move this summer and will probably try to tie Labour commiting to Remain with Corbyn going.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Detournement

[Jacksgranda]

25 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Heard a part of that.  I thought the woman was very good, coherent and effective despite constant interruptions.

Her point about a Jewish group trying to shut a pro-Palestine conference on the basis that it was anti-Semitic is emblematic of the false accusations being made by pro-Zionists.

Are the Palistinians not semites also? So by that logic a pro Israeli conference would also be anti-Semitic.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Jacksgranda
sllepnig

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Are the Palistinians not semites also? So by that logic a pro Osraeli conference would also be anti-Semitic.

Yes.  Term appropriation.  Not the worst of their faults unfortunately.

[The OP]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Are the Palistinians not semites also? So by that logic a pro Israeli conference would also be anti-Semitic.

Only if you ignore the last 100 years or so of common usage and understanding of a particular term in favour of an archaic and obsolete meaning. 

[strichener]

2 hours ago, The OP said:

Only if you ignore the last 100 years or so of common usage and understanding of a particular term in favour of an archaic and obsolete meaning. 

So that's a yes then?

[The OP]

19 minutes ago, strichener said:

So that's a yes then?

Only if you're on a self-defeating quest to look clever. 

So it's a no then

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, The OP said:

Only if you ignore the last 100 years or so of common usage and understanding of a particular term in favour of an archaic and obsolete meaning. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

[NotThePars]

The swastika is also a buddhist symbol meaning "good fortune." No, I do not understand the evolution of language and context.

[The OP]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

From your own chosen source

The terminology is now largely obsoleteoutside linguistics.^[7][8][9] However, in archaeology, the term is sometimes used informally as "a kind of shorthand" for ancient Semitic-speaking peoples.^[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

 

For the avoidance of doubt, hosting a pro-Israeli conference could never be understood as anti-Semitic by any reasonable person.

[The OP]

Also, homophobes aren’t necessarily terrified of gay people.

[LongTimeLurker]

Jacksgranda is correct that the term Semitic is still actively used to cover both Jewish and Arabic culture in some contexts, so it's never been clear to me why anti-Jewish isn't used when that's what people really mean.

[welshbairn]

23 minutes ago, The OP said:

Also, homophobes aren’t necessarily terrified of gay people.

They're dyslexics afraid of words that sound the same. 

[The OP]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Jacksgranda is correct that the term Semitic is still actively used to cover both Jewish and Arabic culture in some contexts, so it's never been clear to me why anti-Jewish isn't used when that's what people really mean.

Islamophobia is used to describe anti-Islamism, if people avoid using specious arguments to counter accusations of prejudice everyone understands it would save a whole lot of time.

[The OP]

In other news, Adolf Hitler didn’t consider the Indo-Iranian race to be superior to all others.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, The OP said:

In other news, Adolf Hitler didn’t consider the Indo-Iranian race to be superior to all others.

And Scottish Nationalists aren't on about beating up the Picts.

[LongTimeLurker]

Bizarre stuff given all that was pointed out was that the use of anti-Semitic rather than anti-Jewish is a bit quirky. Spend some time around Palestinians as I have done a few times over the years and you will probably soon hear some very anti-Jewish as opposed to anti-Zionist sentiments being expressed (in much the same way that many Israelis are very anti-Arab and are not believers in the whole idea of peaceful coexistance). Quite why some people on here find it so hard to grasp that Jeremy Corbyn in deliberately choosing to attach himself with radical Middle East politics  is likely to have wound up hanging around very dodgy people from that sort of standpoint in the process is perhaps the bigger mystery in all of this. There again some people's simplistic world view requires a good guy side and a bad guy side, so a more complex scenario in which everybody doesn't suddenly start behaving like a bunch of quiche eating Guardian readers if the current set of iniquitous power structures is removed doesn't really compute.

[SandyCromarty]

Anti Semitism goes back years and was widespread in the UK where they were regarded by aristocracy as 'trade'.

It was all right to borrow large sums of money from jews such as the Rothchilds or Goldsteins but it was never the right thing to socialise with them.

All large British Rail Hotels back in the 1950's and onwards were government owned, so if a Jew for instance called say Turnberry or Gleneagles for instance and asked for a room and gave his name as Rubenstein or similar he or she would be told that the hotel was fully booked.