Rangers' Wee Spot in Europe - Season 2023/24

[bennett]

I reckon that we should be able to get through the group stages, need to cut out the stupid mistakes against teams of this quality. 

7 points from 3 games isn't that bad when you think about it.

 

[BillyAnchor]

Bless the ugly sisters in Europe, during these tough times they keep giving.

[G51]

9 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Few observations from that.

1. Kent is a really frustrating player. His workrate and runs caused problems all night, but his lack of quality arguably costs rangers the game. He and Darwin similar chances. The better player of the two (technically) scores his.

2. What is Arfield doing a goal up in stoppage time giving the ball away under no pressure

3. Kamara was outstanding, but out on his feet the last 10 minutes. Gerard doesn't make a change and they lose a cheap goal through the centre of the park.

4. Helander isnt good defending against any sort of pace or movement. At fault for all 3 goals and looked like he would struggle all second half. Easy in hindsight, but should have been Balogun based on that and surely will be in the return game.

It's great seeing a Scottish team play so well against good European opposition, but there's also something typically Scottish about blowing a 2 goal lead in the last 15 minutes against 10 men (as it had been for 70 minutes) and it being completely self inflicted.

Also worth pointing out that they looked stronger than rangers in the last 10, having played a man short for an hour by that stage. Their manager made changes to keep his side fresh, Gerard didn't (1 sub?). That was a poor call IMO.

A good point before the game, a poor point afterwards.

Blaming Kent for costing Rangers the game is a genuinely ridiculous opinion. He's the reason Benfica go down to ten men and why Barisic gets so much space on the left. Clipping a shot off the post when we're 3-1 up doesn't cost us the game. Shown a lot of quality this season too.

Helanders also been part of a defence that conceded 3 goals all season before tonight. Yeah he had a bad game tonight, but lets cool some of these hot takes a bit.

[AJF]

That’s an absolute sickener. You need to do much better to see that game out 3-1 up against 10 men with 15 minutes to go.

A draw would’ve been a great result before kick off, but it’s definitely 2 points thrown away.

[The_Kincardine]

6 minutes ago, KnightswoodBear said:

On one hand, that was abysmal game management.

On the other, we threw that deliberately because we don't have enough room for Portugal on our mantlepiece. 

Oh FFS - you could accomodate Portugal in the pantry at KB House and have one of your scullery maids dust it down on a weekly basis...

5 minutes ago, bennett said:

I reckon that we should be able to get through the group stages, need to cut out the stupid mistakes against teams of this quality. 

7 points from 3 games isn't that bad when you think about it.

It's excellent but tonight is very night we chose to play like fannies when we were 3-1 up.  Disappointing.

[Derry Alli]

Switched off after Kent hit the post so can't really comment on Benfica's goals or that. Rangers only have themselves to blame for being so wasteful, should have been well over by then - it was one way traffic until the sending off and after that it should have been a cricket score in Rangers favour. 

If they keep eleven men on the park at Ibrox, you'll be lucky to get a point. 

[ewan14]

2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Good Ol' Otamendi.

Edit : there is 20 minutes gone, or 70 minutes left. Why is Alex Rae saying "with the best part of an hour and ten minutes to go"? 

Is this on BT ?

At least you got minutes

Liam on Sportsound still thinks it is cool  to just give the numbers

P.S. Is he Sevconian ?

[gaz5]

Blaming Kent for costing Rangers the game is a genuinely ridiculous opinion. He's the reason Benfica go down to ten men and why Barisic gets so much space on the left. Clipping a shot off the post when we're 3-1 up doesn't cost us the game. Shown a lot of quality this season too.
Helanders also been part of a defence that conceded 3 goals all season before tonight. Yeah he had a bad game tonight, but lets cool some of these hot takes a bit.

Try to take your blinkers off a bit. [emoji846]

I said Kent had a good game, but it's also absolutely true that if he takes his relatively simple chance at 3-1 it's game over, a chance almost identical to that presented to a better player on 92 minutes who does what Kent should have with the ease Kent should have. He didn't even hit the target.

Saying Helander had been part of a good defence all season (he hasn't, he's been in and out and my point was Balogun in hindsight would have been better against that opposition tonight based on their strengths) is up there with Trump's "I'd have won Wisconsin if there were no postal votes".

Who cares what Helander has done all season, tonight he struggled with pace and movement and cost Rangers 3 goals. Pretty hard to argue with that assessment of the game.

Kent scores, Rangers win. Helander can defend against pace and movement, Rangers win.

It's not a personal attack on them to point that out. [emoji1787]

[The_Kincardine]

2 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Edit : there is 20 minutes gone, or 70 minutes left. Why is Alex Rae saying "with the best part of an hour and ten minutes to go"? 

 

8 minutes ago, ewan14 said:

Is this on BT ?

At least you got minutes

Yeah but my prediction is it will play out as a draw.

[G51]

Just now, gaz5 said:

 

 

Try to take your blinkers off a bit.

I said Kent had a good game, but it's also absolutely true that if he takes his relatively simple chance at 3-1 it's game over, a chance almost identical to that presented to a better player on 92 minutes who does what Kent should have with the ease Kent should have. He didn't even hit the target.

Saying Helander had been part of a good defence all season (he hasn't, he's been in and out and my point was Balogun in hindsight would have been better against that opposition tonight based on their strengths) is up there with Trump's "I'd have won Wisconsin if there were no postal votes".

Who cares what Helander has done all season, tonight he struggled with pace and movement and cost Rangers 3 goals. Pretty hard to argue with that assessment of the game.

Kent scores, Rangers win. Helander can defend against pace and movement, Rangers win.

It's not a personal attack on them to point that out.

It's game over regardless, Benfica were out of it and we were two goals and a man up. Kents shot had an xG of 0.36, so it's not exactly unthinkable that he didn't score.

Helander has played 13/18 games this season, he's not exactly a bit part player. And I've no idea why Balogun, who's a more aggressive player and therefore even more likely to overcommit, would have a style better suited to playing in this game.

Tonight Helander struggled with one of the best young strikers in Europe. That's why he struggled. He's defended against plenty of players with pace and movement, as is reflected by his record in Scotland. He had a bad game tonight, no doubt, but saying he can't defend against quick players is daft.

[gaz5]

It's game over regardless, Benfica were out of it and we were two goals and a man up. Kents shot had an xG of 0.36, so it's not exactly unthinkable that he didn't score.

Helander has played 13/18 games this season, he's not exactly a bit part player. And I've no idea why Balogun, who's a more aggressive player and therefore even more likely to overcommit, would have a style better suited to playing in this game.

Tonight Helander struggled with one of the best young strikers in Europe. That's why he struggled. He's defended against plenty of players with pace and movement, as is reflected by his record in Scotland. He had a bad game tonight, no doubt, but saying he can't defend against quick players is daft.

It clearly wasn't game over regardless. They scored two goals after that and it finished 3-3, not 3-1.

 

It's pretty well studied the difference between a 2 and 3 goal margin on game outcomes. Less 3 goal margins are lost than 2, which is actually fairly common by comparison.

 

Both players had the same (or should be very similar at least) xG. Both 2 touches, both strong foot, both facing goal, both in shot zone 3, both 1v1 and both under very light pressure (those are the main variables applied).

 

Kent didn't even hit the target. That's criminal in a 1 in 3 scoring position.

 

If you want to use xG as an argument (and it's a fine one) then you can't argue the relative quality of the two players at the same time though. The one thing xG explicitly ignores (rightly) is the who and just applies a quality market to the chance itself. You and I would get the same xG for Kent's chance as Kent did. Of the 3 of us which one should score the 1 in 3 chance? [emoji1787]

 

Balogun would have been better because of his better acceleration, higher top speed and defensive agility than Helander. Helander is a better defender than Balogun in the air and in physical duals with a traditional central striker, Balogun is a better defender on the ground 1v1 and against pace/movement.

 

Helander was fine when they went down to 10 and he was playing up against the big Swiss boy. That's his game. But he was struggling with the movement of Pizzi until the sending off and it was pretty clear from about 2 minutes after they changed the big last second half for the number 9 he wasn't going to suit playing against him because of his pace and movement. But Gerard didn't change it and Helander shipped 2 goals in the last 15.

 

ETA: I'll take your word that he isn't always bad against it. I don't watch rangers all that often, but when I do and he plays that's generally the feeling I come away with about Helander.

 

I saw Balogun in a game earlier this season and thought he was a very good 1v1 defender with decent pace/recovery.

 

Helander whenever I see him never looks like getting back if a player gets away from him.

 

[davied85]

Few observations from that.

1. Kent is a really frustrating player. His workrate and runs caused problems all night, but his lack of quality arguably costs rangers the game. He and Darwin similar chances. The better player of the two (technically) scores his.

2. What is Arfield doing a goal up in stoppage time giving the ball away under no pressure

3. Kamara was outstanding, but out on his feet the last 10 minutes. Gerard doesn't make a change and they lose a cheap goal through the centre of the park.

4. Helander isnt good defending against any sort of pace or movement. At fault for all 3 goals and looked like he would struggle all second half. Easy in hindsight, but should have been Balogun based on that and surely will be in the return game.

It's great seeing a Scottish team play so well against good European opposition, but there's also something typically Scottish about blowing a 2 goal lead in the last 15 minutes against 10 men (as it had been for 70 minutes) and it being completely self inflicted.

Also worth pointing out that they looked stronger than rangers in the last 10, having played a man short for an hour by that stage. Their manager made changes to keep his side fresh, Gerard didn't (1 sub?). That was a poor call IMO.

A good point before the game, a poor point afterwards.

Agree with most of that but helander has been quality all season.his positioning and last ditch tackles in Europe especially are class.he had probably his worst game tonight in a rangers jersey against a very good team but we still didn't lose which is the main thing.

[davied85]

Agree with most of that but helander has been quality all season.his positioning and last ditch tackles in Europe especially are class.he had probably his worst game tonight in a rangers jersey against a very good team but we still didn't lose which is the main thing.

Arfield not keeping ball or putting ball in corner cost is the 3 points.would have expected that from Kent or aribo but not arfield.then the defence was to square and no-one marking the striker so it was a simple ball thru for a goal.ad rather concentrate on another top performance in Europe and top performances from Davis,tav and morelos in particular.

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, davied85 said:

9 minutes ago, davied85 said:

Agree with most of that but helander has been quality all season.his positioning and last ditch tackles in Europe especially are class.he had probably his worst game tonight in a rangers jersey against a very good team but we still didn't lose which is the main thing.

Arfield not keeping ball or putting ball in corner cost is the 3 points.would have expected that from Kent or aribo but not arfield.then the defence was to square and no-one marking the striker so it was a simple ball thru for a goal.ad rather concentrate on another top performance in Europe and top performances from Davis,tav and morelos in particular.

A misplaced pass away from a European masterclass.  Still a sore one.

[Twinkle]

Why are Rangers being shown as top of the group despite Benfica having both a better goal difference and also more goals scored?

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Twinkle said:

Why are Rangers being shown as top of the group despite Benfica having both a better goal difference and also more goals scored?

Masons

[Twinkle]

Masons

See, i thought that might be the case but ive noticed its happened in other groups as well so that theory is up in (white) smoke

[G51]

9 minutes ago, Twinkle said:

Why are Rangers being shown as top of the group despite Benfica having both a better goal difference and also more goals scored?

Presumably it's done on H2H and an away draw gives us the edge over Benfica?

[DMCs]

9 minutes ago, Twinkle said:

Why are Rangers being shown as top of the group despite Benfica having both a better goal difference and also more goals scored?

We are ahead of them on away goals scored in the H2H.

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, G51 said:

Presumably it's done on H2H and an away draw gives us the edge over Benfica?

 

1 minute ago, DMCs said:

We are ahead of them on away goals scored in the H2H.

Is the right answer but sensible responses do nothing for the conspiracy theorists.