Guest Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 There all competing in the West Region. You want them to give that up for something potentially worse with no guarantees. The EoSFL started in 1923 so comparing its beginnings isn't the same. The LL is a better comparison but they also had the knowledge of being the one of two feeders leagues to the SPFL after a trial season. 11/12 were members of the SFA so had their Scottish Cup entry guaranteed, SFA payments guaranteed, access to grants by being SFA members, plus membership to the EoSFA and Southern Counties FA that provided them additional cup competitions. The SFA has just spent a year plus dealing with the SJFA, EoS, LL and SoS and apparently said at the EoS meeting that if they tried to change the LL Play-off they would step in. Who's to even say the SFA would acknowlege the WoSFL as in the pyramid and eligible for licensing? How's the Lowland League Play-off going to work between the WoSFL, EoSFL and SoSFL don't know. How's the South & East of Scotland Cup-Winners Shield going to be amended to allow West of Scotland clubs entry. The sfa want a fully functioning pyramid, they asked the sjfa to come on board and appeared to give them their full backing.... That was until they realised they couldnt force them into the pyramid under the ospices of we can do what we want. The sfa would have to acknowledge it, to start it, they would have to be involved in the communication and set up of a wosfl. There would be a reworking if the LL play off and negotiations would have to be sought to increase LL relegation places. The cups would have to be adjusted to involve the west clubs. No doubt. None of these things are insurmountable and should be seen as speed bumps on the road not mountains. If the sfa, LL, and west clubs want a fully flowing and functioning pyramid then this is the only route to go down. Waiting for tj and his crew to agree to drop their anchor, lose their paid jobs and give up their positions is not going to happen. The benefits of West clubs joining the pyramid far outweigh the benefits of staying where they are. They just need to be highlighted to them, during the set up of a wosfl and clubs can then make an informed decision. Stay or join.... Pretty simple if you ask me. However if they turn down the opportunity for a 3rd time of asking then let them be, but remove all access to the Senior Scottish Cup and any affiliation with the professional game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 12 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: ...The SFA has just spent a year plus dealing with the SJFA, EoS, LL and SoS and apparently said at the EoS meeting that if they tried to change the LL Play-off they would step in. Who's to even say the SFA would acknowlege the WoSFL as in the pyramid and eligible for licensing? How's the Lowland League Play-off going to work between the WoSFL, EoSFL and SoSFL don't know... ...which is why in a nutshell it's probably easier in procedural terms at this point to expand the LL by adding extra feeder tiers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramidic Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...which is why in a nutshell it's probably easier in procedural terms at this point to expand the LL by adding extra feeder tiers. I suppose if we started going down this road the East of Scotland League could be absorbed / amalgamated with the Lowland League forming a LL Eastern Region (Tiers 6 to 8 ) below the main LL division (Tier 5). The LL Western Region might grow as clubs decided to move over from the WRJFA, SOSL and Amateur football. As there appear to be the same officials involved running the LL and EOSFL such an amalgamation might be somewhat easier to deliver than expected. However, I am not sure that this is the route to go down as I am very supportive of the EOSFL and what they have achieved. Edited June 20, 2019 by Pyramidic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) On 19/06/2019 at 17:03, Paco said: Might be worth the Lowland/EoS clubs trying to set up a West of Scotland league to, if nothing else, go to the SPFL and demand prioritisation of the promotion place to League 2. A fully functioning league system underneath the 16 team Lowland League, with three leagues in the east, one in the south, and at least one in the west, versus a Highland League with 17 teams that refuses to consider change? Would be a strong position to demand preferential treatment. Say, 2nd in Lowland v Highland champions first, then the winners v the Lowland champions, before going on to play club 42. Away and boil yer heid paco. Everyone in the SHFL voted for the pyramid except for the manky mob in Buckie!! The only people resisting change in the north is the North juniors,most want to stay where they are. Banks o Dee were asked to join by the SHFL only a matter of weeks ago after Coves promotion to League 2 but declined saying they didn't have enough time to prepare for the SHFL,hopefully next year they are. Even the North Caledonian League said they were interested in the pyramid. Edited June 20, 2019 by Whitburn Vale 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) Are you serious. The SHFL are only too happy to hide behind the ^ nobody is interested to join us ^ guff because it suits them and not having for one second any notion that saying ^ we are in favour of the pyramid^ guff is anything but rampant self preservation. Talk about eating your cake and having it, this is wrong , wrong , wrong. Why would the SHFL want any change to status quo, they are in dream land. Playing in their own wee 17 team bubble, getting exactly the same prize as curently 60 plus teams and rising to probably about 160 teams in the Lowland catchment area. Or we could just move the dividing line to the Orkneys so everyone is in Lowland catchment. This is a serious and major impediment to any sort of serious pyramid. Time to challenge the status quo and apply some pressure on SFA to address this manifest unfairness. Edited June 20, 2019 by ekok Mistype 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, ekok said: Are you serious. The SHFL are only too happy to hide behind the ^ nobody is interested to join us ^ guff because it suits them and not having for one second any notion that saying ^ we are in favour of the pyramid^ guff is anything but rampant self preservation. Talk about eating your cake and having it, this is wrong , wrong , wrong. Why would the SHFL want any change to status quo, they are in dream land. Playing in their own wee 17 team bubble, getting exactly the same prize as curently 60 plus teams and rising to probably about 160 teams in the Lowland catchment area. Or we could just move the dividing line to the Orkneys so everyone is in Lowland catchment. This is a serious and major impediment to any sort of serious pyramid. Time to challenge the status quo and apply some pressure on SFA to address this manifest unfairness. They invited Banks O'Dee to join them. What else are they supposed to do, force them? They are the only club that can join at the moment. It's not the SHFL's responsibility to create a pyramid in the north. If the NRJFA & Tayside juniors aren't interested, you can hardly blame the SHFL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I suppose the immediate future of the LL will be the new season. Anyone know when the fixtures are announced? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, come on shire said: I suppose the immediate future of the LL will be the new season. Anyone know when the fixtures are announced? Ism't it no normally a week after the SPFL? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 They'll have to factor in the groundsharers. SPFL fixtures are now out so hopefully not long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 23 hours ago, ekok said: Are you serious. The SHFL are only too happy to hide behind the ^ nobody is interested to join us ^ guff because it suits them and not having for one second any notion that saying ^ we are in favour of the pyramid^ guff is anything but rampant self preservation. Talk about eating your cake and having it, this is wrong , wrong , wrong. Why would the SHFL want any change to status quo, they are in dream land. Playing in their own wee 17 team bubble, getting exactly the same prize as curently 60 plus teams and rising to probably about 160 teams in the Lowland catchment area. Or we could just move the dividing line to the Orkneys so everyone is in Lowland catchment. This is a serious and major impediment to any sort of serious pyramid. Time to challenge the status quo and apply some pressure on SFA to address this manifest unfairness. You still raging bout Cove bodying you guys in the play-offs sweetheart. As marten said only BoD are SHFL compliant right now,they were ASKED to join for the coming season but declined due to a shortage of time to prepare,hopefully this time next year they will be in HL. Nobody's disputing that the Tay line isn't population based fair for an even split but as it stands thems the rules. The north region juniors are as bad as the western West Lothian juniors or the Ayrshire juniors about the pyramid....not interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, come on shire said: I suppose the immediate future of the LL will be the new season. Anyone know when the fixtures are announced? Took 10 days for the fixtures to be announced after the SPFL ones last year (15/25th June) but hopefully with one less team ground sharing they will be out quicker, presumably next week? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, Ginaro said: Took 10 days for the fixtures to be announced after the SPFL ones last year (15/25th June) but hopefully with one less team ground sharing they will be out quicker, presumably next week? I thought I read edusports ground wasnt ready in time for new season and they'd still be at annan...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: I thought I read edusports ground wasnt ready in time for new season and they'd still be at annan...... They said in a twitter video it will be ready for the new season, though @gogsy in another post said it's not been checked yet. Suppose fixtures man could work around Annan to be on the safe side... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ginaro said: They said in a twitter video it will be ready for the new season, though @gogsy in another post said it's not been checked yet. Suppose fixtures man could work around Annan to be on the safe side... Presumably all the license boxes ticked as well ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: Presumably all the license boxes ticked as well ? As you can see they are rejigging the changing pavilion, they've added screening and cover for 100 so presumably yes it will tick all the boxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said: You still raging bout Cove bodying you guys in the play-offs sweetheart. As marten said only BoD are SHFL compliant right now,they were ASKED to join for the coming season but declined due to a shortage of time to prepare,hopefully this time next year they will be in HL. Nobody's disputing that the Tay line isn't population based fair for an even split but as it stands thems the rules. The north region juniors are as bad as the western West Lothian juniors or the Ayrshire juniors about the pyramid....not interested. You could not be more wrong if you tried. At the time I said we were well beaten and I absolutely stand by that . Yes thems the rules and they need challenged. If no one is interested , which seems to be the case, then some other means of making the glaring and enevitably ever widening gap ( ie zero to 160) teams feeding in to the respective leagues needs to be addressed. The population based approach seems to work in Germany. Other posters suggested this could be achieved by weighting the play off arrangements to suit. Numerous ways this could be done , in an ideal world this would include automatic relegation for Team 42. The point is the conversation needs to happen and all the options explored. This should be led by SLFL , as I said SHFL have no reason to want to challenge the status quo, why would they ? They are in dream land and a wake up call is overdue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Nobody is arguing that a feeder league or 2 needs set up below the SHFL,both the north juniors and tayside juniors need to be hauled into the pyramid. With the ever improving road network around Aberdeen and the A9 the travel excuse holds no water. All the SHFL and SLFL can do is lobby,its the SFA who could really push buttons. Maybe remove a Scottish cup place for the North,East and West region junior champions,especially as the east is now full of dross. You attack the HL for the current impasse,maybe you should look at the real perpetrator........the SJFA. Again nobody is arguing that its sweet right now for the HL and in particular for teams like Fort William but at least the HL tried to bring BoD in who would no doubt have enhanced the league(maybe next year). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) All fair points and especially regarding SJFA, they are finding out big style that Tiers 5 and 6 are not the walk over they thought they were. Given the geography and demographics of Scotland the only realistic long term solution is to address the imbalance between SHFL and SLFL. Would making SHFL Tier 6 be workable or fair ? Probably not to first question, certainly not to second. So if that is out of the question how else do we solve this riddle ? By SFA taking the lead , as suggested elsewhere, bringing together everyone involved, Associations, Leagues etc and for once looking at all the issues in a grown up manner, parking self interest and finding the best way forward. Will never suit everybody, but there is an optimal solution out there , we just need to find it. So finally my suggestion, the SHFL and SLFL jointly set up a Tier 5 working group, agree how they see Tier 5s place in the sun and identify the issues and possible solutions to interactions with SPFL ( automatic relegation for Team 42 for starters I would think) and Tier 6. Once something worthwhile produced , ask SFA to use as discussion paper to start engaging with everyone else with an interest. Time for action , not just words. Edited June 22, 2019 by ekok Mistype 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 On 20/06/2019 at 21:25, ekok said: Are you serious. The SHFL are only too happy to hide behind the ^ nobody is interested to join us ^ guff because it suits them and not having for one second any notion that saying ^ we are in favour of the pyramid^ guff is anything but rampant self preservation. Talk about eating your cake and having it, this is wrong , wrong , wrong. Why would the SHFL want any change to status quo, they are in dream land. They signed up to the pyramid knowing full well what the boundary was going to be and didn't shrink at the idea of "Wick to Montrose on a wet Wednesday night". They've put a plan in place to split into divisions if they exceed 20 members. So they are willing to create a 2nd tier, but until there's interest there isn't much they can do. You can understand why they don't want to split into two 10x divisions willingly. They engaged with the NRJFA and were told the juniors weren't interested. They've sent representatives to the last NCL AGM, so they are engaged with pyramid building. They invited Banks O'dee this year. Can you think of many leagues that do that? They listened to the ICT colts interest and the can of worms that would open. In seriously considering the ICT colts, I think it also shows the idea that you have to already have your SFA license before you apply isn't true. Any club in the catchment area can apply, then presumably use a provisional acceptance by the HFL to meet the pyramid league licensing requirement set by the SFA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I'll admit this is more of a Junior question, but there's enough knowledge around here that can answer it i'm sure. On the question of weighting things in favour of the Lowland League. How did the West Region handle the Central/Ayrshire divide? Looking at the last time promotion and relegation worked before going region wide in 2016-17 into 2017-18. The 3rd Tier Ayrshire League had 12 teams with 2 promoted. 3rd Tier Central First Division had 14 teams and 2 promoted. While the Central also had a 4th tier Second Division with another 12 teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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