Billy Gilmour

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, gannonball said:

You accused me of much not liking him for that reason iirc, despite not ever slagging him off, only questioning how somebody can be deemed world class after a few games. I would be saying the about any Celtic player or ex youth product breaking through and people making such claims. I think people just got carried away it’s really as simple as that for me. 

Well I dont know you personally, and can't recall what you are talking about tbh. I do remember arguing with you for quite a while on various topics, and it was me who offered an olive branch to cool it off.

If your point is that celtic or rangers fans don't have an irrational dislike of the other teams players and ex players. Then I would strongly disagree. Of course that doesn't mean every single one of them.

I look at gilmour and see a level of ability and understanding of football that I've not seen before in a young Scottish player. Its a simple as that. If you disagree cool beans thats fine by me.

Time will tell.

[2426255]

Quote

We had high hopes and he played for us in the first half-a-year when I was at Chelsea, played some important matches for us and looked for a new challenge that did not go so well for him with Norwich. We expected more, he expected more so it was like, without pointing a finger, but it is difficult also for him and for us to not succeed, to not play at Norwich, to be relegated and then suddenly be a central midfielder for Chelsea and competing for top four and for every title.

There's a huge step in between so we were looking. The ideal solution would have been maybe that he goes again on loan as the concurrence is huge for us in central midfield and we felt like he is not the age where he can live again with five or seven or eight matches during a whole season to fulfil his own potential so ideally it would have been another loan. Billy did not want to go on loan, it was a no-go for him so in the end we agreed to a sale.

Thomas Tuchel

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11174879/Thomas-Tuchel-says-Chelsea-expected-midfielder-Billy-Gilmour.html

[gannonball]

1 minute ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Well I dont know you personally, and can't recall what you are talking about tbh. I do remember arguing with you for quite a while on various topics, and it was me who offered an olive branch to cool it off.

If your point is that celtic or rangers fans don't have an irrational dislike of the other teams players and ex players. Then I would strongly disagree. Of course that doesn't mean every single one of them.

I look at gilmour and see a level of ability and understanding of football that I've not seen before in a young Scottish player. Its a simple as that. If you disagree cool beans thats fine by me.

Time will tell.

Tbf I can’t say for sure if it was yourself making the accusation regarding him being a Rangers fan/player and I can’t be arsed checking back. I’m also aware that people will automatically play down a player of a rivals team. However at no point did I ever really doubt his ability, just that of people being able to predict a player to be world class after half a dozen games. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, gannonball said:

Tbf I can’t say for sure if it was yourself making the accusation regarding him being a Rangers fan/player and I can’t be arsed checking back. I’m also aware that people will automatically play down a player of a rivals team. However at no point did I ever really doubt his ability, just that of people being able to predict a player to be world class after half a dozen games. 

I understand where your coming from, I dont think you understand where I'm coming from though.

Have you never seen a player for the first time and just been amazed by them and thought that guys got it? Its one of the joys of football is it not?

As has been said before there's so many variables in a person's life that you can't predict exactly whats going to happen. I think though if everything goes well for Billy gilmour then we will have an outstanding player on our hands.

[eez-eh]

4 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11174879/Thomas-Tuchel-says-Chelsea-expected-midfielder-Billy-Gilmour.html

Saw that last week. This bit stood out:

We expected more, he expected more so it was like, without pointing a finger, but it is difficult also for him and for us to not succeed, to not play at Norwich, to be relegated and then suddenly be a central midfielder for Chelsea and competing for top four and for every title.

That’s a completely fair assessment, but it’s also questionable when you consider Ruben Loftus-Cheek had a rubbish loan spell at Fulham before coming back and playing 40 games last season under the same manager.

I don’t think Tuchel ever saw Gilmour fitting into his team, with lots of rumours that he couldn’t see past his lack of physicality, but he’s unlikely to put it so bluntly in public.

[2426255]

15 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I dont think you understand where I'm coming from though.

We all know where you're coming from. You're getting light years ahead of yourself. Just calm down and take a condor moment before you start making grand proclamations about who is and who isn't going to be world class. That's all we're asking.

On 12/07/2021 at 13:05, BingMcCrosby said:

Let's put it to the test, im saying right now Gilmour is going to be a world class player. Your saying that "you" couldn't possibly give an opinion. Until you have watched him for 2 seasons. Your saying you don't believe me, Im saying your a clueless judge of a footballer. Let's see who's right.

 

[Satoshi]

7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What a load of facile shite.

Thinking that some of the comments on here were over the top in predicting this player's stardom, does not equate to self loathing at all.

Simply saying it does, does not render that so, I'm afraid.

 

Away you go with your excitable, juvenile nonsense.

As I said before, if you're not a self loathing Scot the statement doesn't apply to you. There are a few posters on this thread who go far too far in their praise of Gilmour, and a few who will do anything to criticise him. Both are wrong.

2 hours ago, 2426255 said:

I love it when people make predictions on limited evidence and then get all defensive when it doesn't pan out according to plan. 

Like the world's shittest terminator you just keep coming back. Don't promise false dawns of leaving the thread unless you are going to follow through.

Your predictions about Gilmour on this thread have been consistently wrong. Not quite as bad as Lex who will do anything to deflect from his earlier posts on this thread.

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Spot on. It's not about hating Gilmour - It's about ripping the pish out of those getting carried away: @Satoshi @BingMcCrosby @HalfCutNinja 

Any example of me getting carried away?

Gilmour looks an excellent young prospect who was talked up by Tuchel in the media before going to Norwich, Tuchel publicly wanted him to stay and Gilmour defied him to get first team football. Brave call by a young player.

He joined a dreadful no hope Norwich team but still played regularly, and was no where near as bad as some people were claiming. The Norwich fans who thought he was a weak link were clearly wrong, he is the only player from that team making a living in the Premiership (along with Man Utd reserve Brandon Williams). But it wasn't an amazing loan spell certainly, but it didn't stop RLC or Gallagher having careers at Chelsea, nor did underwhelming (second tier) loan spells do much to harm Harry Kane's career. It just doesn't matter that much and there was some pretty ludicrous knicker wetting on this thread about him dropping to the Championship or joining rangers. Those posters got it wrong, horribly wrong.

Cut to this season, Chelsea demonstrate they want to keep Gilmour by immediately extending his contract. They terminate Ross Barkleys.The smart move is to loan him out, and I have absolutely no doubt that was their first choice, but in a call back to earlier example of Gilmour defying his manager / the club I very much expect it was him pushing for either first team football or a permanent departure. That is the most likely explanation for him not going on tour when clearly inferior players did. I don't think there was any PL teams who wanted to sign RLC after his rotten Fulham spell.

Chelsea, by the accounts of most pundits, had an awful bordering on ludicrous window, led by a guy who clearly doesn't know what he's doing. One of Gilmours competitors Gallagher, a guy he's been ahead of for most of his Chelsea career, has been one of the PLs worst players so far. But it is hard to break in ahead of Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic (the first two of which Gilmour is far ahead of at the same age, as he is for most Chelsea loanees).

Not that it's any disgrace to be sold by Chelsea, it emboldened the careers of Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah. Lamprey, Livramento and Guehi have looked a lot better and increased their profile since leaving. Chelseas big money signing Cucurella, from Brighton, was sold to Getafe from Barcelona.

And the team he is joining is pretty much the perfect team, upwardly mobile, a tradition of developing young players and an excellent coach who improves players. They are far ahead of Chelsea in the table and it's not out with the realms of possibility they will finish above them. It's the perfect move for him, better than being a bench player at Chelsea.

If I was over egging him I would be saying he will walk into the first team and be bossing matches immediately but I have been clear that he won't. Brighton are in excellent form and he didn't have a pre season with them. A realistic goal for him would be 15 league appearances this season, and I expect he will get around that. He should be looking to be a starter for next season.

Gilmour isn't the Messiah, there are a lot of excellent young Scottish players at the moment and he is just one of them, but the way he burst onto the scene was thrilling. He has demonstrated he can play at the highest level and now just needs to show it consistently in the right team with the right manager. I think he will, I'm happy with my prediction that he will easily find another team in the top 5 leagues of Europe.

The hate he got from some Norwich fans was completely inappropriate, something a bit nauseating about grown men posting personal attacks against a kid. From what we have seen Gilmour so far he is brave on and off the pitch, seems to have the attitude to go far.

 

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, eez-eh said:

Saw that last week. This bit stood out:

We expected more, he expected more so it was like, without pointing a finger, but it is difficult also for him and for us to not succeed, to not play at Norwich, to be relegated and then suddenly be a central midfielder for Chelsea and competing for top four and for every title.

That’s a completely fair assessment, but it’s also questionable when you consider Ruben Loftus-Cheek had a rubbish loan spell at Fulham before coming back and playing 40 games last season under the same manager.

I don’t think Tuchel ever saw Gilmour fitting into his team, with lots of rumours that he couldn’t see past his lack of physicality, but he’s unlikely to put it so bluntly in public.

Jorginho is hardly a physical player either.

But yes if Tuchel was desperate to keep him and willing to offer a lot of first team football he would have done. He wasn't and he didn't and coaches are paid to make those calls. Sometimes they get them right and sometimes they don't, they will usually have a short termist perspective thought.

On current rate, Tuchel will not make the end of the year.

[2426255]

59 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Any example of me getting carried away?

It's bed time, but just quickly how about this?

On 17/04/2022 at 07:17, Satoshi said:

Even now I think it's likely Gilmour will have a better Chelsea career than Gallagher, with the latter much more suited to a more advanced role at a smaller club, only Jorginho and, to a lesser extent Kovacic, can do what Gilmour does. Gallagher is another Joe Willock, decent chance Chelsea will sell him in the summer.

Edited September 6, 2022 by 2426255

[Satoshi]

Doesn't seem particularly carried away. Gallagher has got his chance this season and looked abysmal. He might get more games as Chelsea are light in midfielder but doesn't look a patch on the player he was last season. Gilmour could have gone back on loan (like Gallagher did) but it looks like he pushed to move permanently. Let's see if it will work well for him like it did the others (I'm adding Tomori and Abraham who I forgot - so many Chelsea players improving as they leave).

Indeed Gallagher had four loans, two in the Championship, before getting his chance. Chelsea kept Gilmour and played him during that time, he was too good for the loan carousel, and only let him go when he insisted. It's yet more evidence Chelsea would have much preferred to have loaned him out again than sold him permanently but Gilmour clearly pushed for it.

Is that your smoking gun? Me saying he is a world class player and will be bossing the Real Madrid midfield? What a let down.

Good of you to pick out one part of that post and ignore the rest, it's a nice summary of how this thread has gone. You post critically about Gilmour, promise to leave, come back, more critical posts.

Yet to see Gallagher have any games as good for Chelsea as Gilmour has managed, on this form he is a certainty for a summer sale.

[2426255]

25 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Doesn't seem particularly carried away. Is that your smoking gun? Me saying he is a world class player and will be bossing the Real Madrid midfield? What a let down.

You asserted that it's likely that Billy Gilmour would go on to have a more successful Chelsea (a team on a similar level to Real Madrid or Barca) career than Conor Gallagher and a few months later Billy Gilmour ended up pushing to be sold because Thomas Tuchel can't guarantee him the game time he wants.

I think it's fair to say you both got it wrong and you were getting carried away. The reality has shown that to be the case. I don't expect you to agree because it casts you in a bad light but you asked for an example and I provided you with one that is straightforward.

Edited September 6, 2022 by 2426255

[Satoshi]

9 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

You asserted that it's likely that Billy Gilmour would go on to have a more successful Chelsea (a team on a similar level to Real Madrid or Barca) career than Conor Gallagher and a few months later Billy Gilmour ended up pushing to be sold because Thomas Tuchel can't guarantee him the game time he wants. I think it's fair to say you both got it wrong and you were getting carried away. The reality has shown that to be the case. I don't expect you to agree because it casts you in a bad light but you asked for an example and I provided you with one.

Chelsea don't look anywhere near on the level of Real Madrid or Barcelona at the moment.

Gallagher doesn't look like he will make it as a Chelsea player on current form.

Gilmour was purchased by a team who are ahead of Chelsea in the league and having a great season.

For all the build up, that was your smoking gun? I said it was likely, and I still think it's likely Gilmours career will eclipse that of Gallagher. As most Chelsea officials believed for the last 5 years. Maybe I'll get it right, maybe I won't.

Do you know what I didn't think? Gilmour going to Rangers or the Championship - that's surely one of the worst predictions on this thread (made many times) and the poster who made it is understandably laying low (he will back on this forum to comment whenever a Scottish player has a bad game though).

Just standard for you to ignore most of my post though, expect you will be picking one line out of this one too. Maybe time to say you're going to stop posting again?

Edited September 6, 2022 by Satoshi

[2426255]

21 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

.

To be blunt you write a lot of shite and so I only quote the points that are relevant to my reply and leave the rest of what you've written out. The point I'm making is that I'm not anti Gilmour and rather I'm taking the piss out of posters on this forum who are getting carried away making daft predictions such as yourself @Satoshi @BingMcCrosby and @HalfCutNinja

 

21 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

For all the build up, that was your smoking gun?

There was not any build up, you asked a question and I answered it. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by 2426255

[Satoshi]

Daft predictions like Gilmour likely having a better career than Connor Gallagher? A prediction held by Chelsea officials for years?

This is the daft prediction you take the piss out of? Not the poster who repeatedly thought he would drop to the Championship or Rangers?

Think that says it all about your alleigances - not that we needed much proof, you've been posting shite about Gilmour for about 20 pages and the mask slipped when you admitted you were just doing it as a wind up.

Why not take the piss out of Lexs rotten predictions? They look objectively further from the mark than mine, and he repeated them about 5 times.

In fact, no need to answer, maybe just stop posting on the thread like you said you would earlier.

 

[2426255]

5 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Daft predictions like Gilmour likely having a better career than Connor Gallagher? A prediction held by Chelsea officials for years?

What officials predicted Billy Gilmour would have a better Chelsea career than Conor Gallagher? 

7 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Think that says it all about your alleigances - not that we needed much proof

What does it say about my allegiances? That I'm a Celtic fan? 

[Satoshi]

16 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

What officials predicted Billy Gilmour would have a better Chelsea career than Conor Gallagher? 

What does it say about my allegiances? That I'm a Celtic fan? 

The ones who kept him at the club whilst punting Gallagher to the lower leagues? Or Tuchel who publicly wanted Gilmour to stay but said nothing as Gallagher was farmed out to Crystal Palace? Or Lampard and Tuchel starting Gilmour when Gallagher was out loan?

And no it says, as this whole thread does, that you have a weird personal obsession with Billy Gilmour. It's sad, it's even worrying. 

Why didn't you comment on Lex's dreadful predictions?

Why do you keep saying you will leave but then stay?

Why are you staying up until the wee hours to keep posting this pish? It's almost midday for me.

[2426255]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

Gilmour was purchased by a team who are ahead of Chelsea in the league and having a great season.

Given Brighton have started the season well without Billy Gilmour, what would you say will be the minimum for a successful season for them? Is Gilmour's first season with Brighton about helping his team or still about getting minutes, developing and helping where he can?

[Satoshi]

The minimum of a successful season for Brighton is avoiding relegation. They would like to do more, and almost certainly will, but that's still the minimum for 14 EPL clubs. Not that it's particularly relevant, or even related to the Gilmour transfer. They saw a talented young player with a high ceiling and signed him, I'm not sure they needed an extra midfielder but he was good enough to justify it anyway (to them). Chelsea fans don't like the transfer and almost all Brighton fans do. Happy days.

As for Gilmour his target is (again obviously) to both develop, and help the team. For me he should be targeting 15 league appearances and push for a starting spot next season. He might do more or less, and it's dependent on fitness and form. Decent chance he will get less appearances than he did for Norwich who played him almost every game for most of the season.

Will you bother to answer any question I posed? I mean, I know you won't, but I'm willing to even answer your irrelevant questions.

Maybe a good time to depart like you said you would?

Edited September 6, 2022 by Satoshi

[Jambomo]

6 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Your third paragraph is almost a direct quote from me a couple of pages ago.

If you want to get philosophical on it is every post on here not in essence pointless.

This is a discussion board for football tho, so discussions on the ability of a player is the kind of thing you might expect to see is it not?

Also everyones idea of evidence is going to be different isn't it, because your not convinced doesn't mean there is no evidence. Its opinions, whats the big deal with being excited about a young player.

 

Ahh apologies, I didn’t mean to unintentionally quote you but I definitely agree with you.!

Yeah of course discussions on his ability are the kind of thing you’d expect to see, I guess it’s just frustrating that this thread is just turned into pages of “you said X” “well you said Y and that’s not happened so he’s shite now” etc

There’s nothing wrong with being excited about a young player at all. I think he definitely has the potential to become one of the best if it all goes right for him. In fact it’s tremendous to see so many young Scottish players in EPL teams right now. Hickey & Patterson are both looking like they could go pretty far in the game as well. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Jesus christ can you guys pm each other, this is beyond a joke.