Granny Danger Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 Imagine a Labour PM doing half the things Johnson has done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 33 minutes ago, Antlion said: This is the key; it isn’t just at the moment but rather what’s been going on for a few years now. Johnson and his ilk have been eroding the standards of politics bit by bit, gradually pushing the limits of what they can get away with (everything, so far). The gradual lowering of standards is how they get away with it. And we’re nowhere near the nadir yet. Expect another little bit of erosion here, another there, as all the while folk just enjoy dear old funny Boris being a character, whilst accepting that politics is just like that and always has been - see, they still wear those wonderfully traditional robes and call each other honourable: the good old English traditions remain, so nothing can have really got worse. Very good points well put. You are of course right, it has been a gradual decline, but it has sped up significantly over the last few months. The remaining traditions are all just hollow. The soul, integrity and purpose of Westminster, little as there was, has been ripped out. Bad of Johnson etc carrying it out, but larger shame on the onlookers for allowing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 11 hours ago, Granny Danger said: Imagine a Labour PM doing half the things Johnson has done. Even a conservative PM would have been completely unthinkable to cause the erosion, scandal and decay Johnson has managed to pack into his fairly short tenure. That said Tories are in the fortunate position to have large chunks of the media on side, particularly in print and with a majority so big he can do as he pleases. This country desperately needs a written constitution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, 101 said: Even a conservative PM would have been completely unthinkable to cause the erosion, scandal and decay Johnson has managed to pack into his fairly short tenure. That said Tories are in the fortunate position to have large chunks of the media on side, particularly in print and with a majority so big he can do as he pleases. This country desperately needs a written constitution. Scotland desperately needs Independence then England and Wales can do exactly what they want. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 19 minutes ago, 101 said: Even a conservative PM would have been completely unthinkable to cause the erosion, scandal and decay Johnson has managed to pack into his fairly short tenure. That said Tories are in the fortunate position to have large chunks of the media on side, particularly in print and with a majority so big he can do as he pleases. This country desperately needs a written constitution. I agree but would you trust the current government to produce it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Scotland desperately needs Independence then England and Wales can do exactly what they want. Well yes that's the gold standard of course. 3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: I agree but would you trust the current government to produce it? No not at all, it needs to be central to the Labour campaign in 2024 as it gives you a single positive message in which to bring up the literally thousands of terrible things Johnston has done during his premiership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 A written constitution is a good idea but the idea that making it "central to the Labour campaign" is a good idea is for the birds. It's the sort of thing (like PR voting systems) that only political anoraks give a toss about. Labour will rightly be focusing on the cost of living and highlighting how much a mess Johnson has made. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Donathan said: A written constitution is a good idea but the idea that making it "central to the Labour campaign" is a good idea is for the birds. It's the sort of thing (like PR voting systems) that only political anoraks give a toss about. Labour will rightly be focusing on the cost of living and highlighting how much a mess Johnson has made. I'd hope by 2024 the cost of living crisis will be over by then. I agree that it's a hard sell but Brexit was a hard sell and they convinced 17 million people to vote for something which had 0 detail. It's a neat way to wrap up all the shit that's gone on during the last 2 years. Other parts of his policy should be tax cuts to the low income and a new higher band of tax for the wealthy 50p in the pound over £200,000 something like that. Campaign to build housing, the Tories had badly let this fall down no pun intended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Oh how they laughed. But I fear this speech, to an almost empty chamber will be shown in history classes for generations to come.. It stopped being about Boris a long time ago, and is instead in the hands of entirely spineless, servile, amoral, grasping, thieving little c***s, like Douglas Ross. Wee fucks like him who always knew he was a threat to decency, to democracy and a hazard to humanity but, have turned a blind eye and cower behind shite about Russia. As though their cowardice and complicity will be adequately hidden from history behind a pile of dead Ukrainians. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 I know we have a constitutional expert who posts on here who may contradict this but as far as I’m aware in the UK any legislation passed by parliament, including a written constitution, can be revoked by a majority government. Any ‘safeguards’ put in place to protect this could equally be revoked. The one big ‘constitutional’ change that could be introduced that could not be easily overturned in the future would be PR for Westminster elections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 37 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I know we have a constitutional expert who posts on here who may contradict this but as far as I’m aware in the UK any legislation passed by parliament, including a written constitution, can be revoked by a majority government. Any ‘safeguards’ put in place to protect this could equally be revoked. The one big ‘constitutional’ change that could be introduced that could not be easily overturned in the future would be PR for Westminster elections. Labour really need to go ahead and back PR in a hung Parliament situation after the next GE. Not alternative vote, and not PR subject to referendum, but straight up change the system. Under the current system they get absolute power maybe 1/3 of the time and nothing the rest of the time. Under PR they’d be the leading partners in a power sharing government the vast, vast majority of the time. The conservatives aren’t getting a majority unless they get 50%+ of the votes, and they have very few natural allies to form coalitions with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Donathan said: Labour really need to go ahead and back PR in a hung Parliament situation after the next GE. Not alternative vote, and not PR subject to referendum, but straight up change the system. Under the current system they get absolute power maybe 1/3 of the time and nothing the rest of the time. Under PR they’d be the leading partners in a power sharing government the vast, vast majority of the time. The conservatives aren’t getting a majority unless they get 50%+ of the votes, and they have very few natural allies to form coalitions with. So long as it was a manifesto commitment. Unless PR is part of their manifesto it would be totally wrong for them to introduce it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: So long as it was a manifesto commitment. Unless PR is part of their manifesto it would be totally wrong for them to introduce it. Unless they form a coalition with ScumLibDems? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 2 hours ago, 101 said: I'd hope by 2024 the cost of living crisis will be over by then. I agree that it's a hard sell but Brexit was a hard sell and they convinced 17 million people to vote for something which had 0 detail. It's a neat way to wrap up all the shit that's gone on during the last 2 years. Other parts of his policy should be tax cuts to the low income and a new higher band of tax for the wealthy 50p in the pound over £200,000 something like that. Campaign to build housing, the Tories had badly let this fall down no pun intended. Who are "they" exactly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 19 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said: Unless they form a coalition with ScumLibDems? Regardless of who they are in coalition with, I think a minority Labour government should only introduce PR for Westminster if it was part of their manifesto offering. Otherwise it would be totally dishonest.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 25 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Who are "they" exactly? You and Granny Danger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: So long as it was a manifesto commitment. Unless PR is part of their manifesto it would be totally wrong for them to introduce it. Why’s that? In a hung Parliament situation it’s impossible for the main party to get their entire manifesto implemented and also impossible for policies outwith their manifesto not to be implemented. Whether it’s a formal coalition or a looser supply & demand agreement, the Lib Dems (or whoever) will extract some concessions from Labour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said: Who are "they" exactly? Leave.uk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 59 minutes ago, BFTD said: You and Granny Danger. "By their friends you shall know them"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Donathan said: Labour really need to go ahead and back PR in a hung Parliament situation after the next GE. Not alternative vote, and not PR subject to referendum, but straight up change the system. Under the current system they get absolute power maybe 1/3 of the time and nothing the rest of the time. Under PR they’d be the leading partners in a power sharing government the vast, vast majority of the time. The conservatives aren’t getting a majority unless they get 50%+ of the votes, and they have very few natural allies to form coalitions with. At the moment, the natural allies of the Conservatives, are Nigel Farage and whatever his party is called at the time. They agree to stand down in key seats and in return the Conservatives do whatever Farage and his party want. Thus the UK party with the most influence is one with no MPs in Westminister. Try discussing that on BBC Question Time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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