Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[ICTJohnboy]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Why would the police stop them when entry into the country via airports is the reserve of the Immigration Enforcement and absolutely nothing to do with police?

 

Yes, but when they leave the airport where are they going then?

Why shouldn't they be asked?

[peasy23]

30 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

That is genuinely scary.  Police enforcing social distancing rules and this is happening.  I reckon you have a far greater chance of catching a virus in an air-recirculated aircraft flight than just about anywhere else.  

I am totally astounded by the 15,000 per day figure.

ETA I’d like to see Sturgeon asked about the situation in Scotland.

Just had a look at Glasgow and Edinburgh airport websites, hardly any flights are going, and the ones that are flying are mainly internal. Only international flight coming into Glasgow today was from Dublin.

[D.A.F.C]

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

That's the stuff of dystopian nightmares !!

 

[Granny Danger]

Just now, peasy23 said:

Just had a look at Glasgow and Edinburgh airport websites, hardly any flights are going, and the ones that are flying are mainly internal. Only international flight coming into Glasgow today was from Dublin.

So can the 15,000 per day figure be accurate?  It strikes me as incredibly high, particularly given the restrictions in other countries too.

[dorlomin]

28 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

They keep saying they follow the science but I wonder if they really did in the beginning?

They followed the advice of the Science Advisory Group for Emergencies. The chair of the group, Patrick Vallence, is often in the press conferences. 

Quote

I genuinely don’t think the herd immunity bull came from the scientific advisers

Herd immunity is the strategy we use for flu every year. Its also the theory behind MMR vaccines. 

https://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/news/herd-immunity-how-does-it-work

Its one of the main reasons people are so anti the antivaxxers. Some people cannot get vaccinated so they rely on the rest of us obtaining "herd immunity". 

Quote

so I wonder if the Tories thought they could do their own thing and realised it was going badly wrong? It seems a bit better managed now than it did before. 

The research that caused a change of tack was published at the time. 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

 

Seriously what is the point. People will make up their own stories and believe them. 

[welshbairn]

38 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

 I reckon you have a far greater chance of catching a virus in an air-recirculated aircraft flight than just about anywhere else.  

I thought so too, but the air filtration systems in modern planes are medical ICU grade, so it's probably safer than a bus or train.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I thought so too, but the air filtration systems in modern planes are medical ICU grade, so it's probably safer than a bus or train.

Did not know this; seems at odds with the number of folk who seem to suffer from minor flu-type ailments following flights.

[Jambomo]

2 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

They followed the advice of the Science Advisory Group for Emergencies. The chair of the group, Patrick Vallence, is often in the press conferences. 

Herd immunity is the strategy we use for flu every year. Its also the theory behind MMR vaccines. 

https://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/news/herd-immunity-how-does-it-work

Its one of the main reasons people are so anti the antivaxxers. Some people cannot get vaccinated so they rely on the rest of us obtaining "herd immunity". 

The research that caused a change of tack was published at the time. 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

 

Seriously what is the point. People will make up their own stories and believe them. 

As I said in my later post, herd immunity itself is an excellent strategy later on, for illnesses such as flu where we are able to vaccinate and billions of people have immunity already.

i think it would be surprising if they really supported herd immunity in this context, for a new disease, where immunity didn’t (or was not known to be) present at all in the community. It doesn’t make sense to think it sensible when it’s dangerous to a lot of groups,. Hence the change happening.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Did not know this; seems at odds with the number of folk who seem to suffer from minor flu-type ailments following flights.

The dry air doesn't help, but it will only from people close by.

[DA Baracus]

39 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

It is, and will be very important, but it can only exist later on - not with a population where there wasn’t immunity already and no vaccine to help bring controlled responses in people.

Also just to say Laura K is an idiot - “Will there be another three weeks”? He’s literally just said that. It’s also pointless asking what’s happening in x weeks - they are responding to the figures so we will be different.
 

 

I read something earlier that puts best estimates of how many folk will now actually have immunity after having it as close to 1M. UK population is about 65M. Folk don't seem to be understanding these sort of numbers in relation to herd immunity.

23 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

So many of the questions just go over the same ground.

It’s fine when trying to get a direct answer on why there wasn’t PPE and he’s evading the question, but in the case of talking about coming out of the lockdown, it’s pretty reasonable to say they are waiting for the data.
 

I don’t doubt that they have been talking about how they might approach it but things might change that approach, I.e if BAME people are now or later shown to be high risk, they may alter the plan. This seems sensible so why keep asking for another answer?

It's because they're asking daft tabloid questions to try and generate a headline. 

6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So can the 15,000 per day figure be accurate?  It strikes me as incredibly high, particularly given the restrictions in other countries too.

The vast majority of those 15,000 will be the London airports.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, MixuFixit said:

I'd bet that's fewer than 100 planes which must be a vanishingly small fraction of what it was before. No excuse for not testing & quarantining them mind.

Fewer than 100 full planes yes.  I’m guessing (and it’s no more than a guess) that the capacity on individual flights will be well down at the moment.

I wouldn’t go on a plane at the moment for any reason.  I know some folk MUST but 105,000 a week cannot all be essential travel.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:

I'd bet that's fewer than 100 planes which must be a vanishingly small fraction of what it was before. No excuse for not testing & quarantining them mind.

Bit late for that, other countries will be more worried about people flying from here, if any are still allowing it.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

 
Yes, but when they leave the airport where are they going then?
Why shouldn't they be asked?

I get that so many are desperate to make the police the whipping boys for all this but im pretty sure its the job of immigration enforcement/border agency to ensure that people entering the country have legitimate reasons and do so in a manner thats acceptable to current uk government policy.

[Netan Sansara]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

If they were reforming salaries, taxation and the social security systems to match, then I think most would be rather pleased.

Salaries fair point, however I do not believe that most people in the UK would be happy to move to the German system. You pay significantly more tax, social security and you pay health insurance. 
The German system is very good, and the social security benefits are amazing (70% of your last pay as unemployment benefit/long term sickness), however with the UK attitude of “I’m alright Jack”, I don’t think people would be pleased to pay the price. 

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I get that so many are desperate to make the police the whipping boys for all this but im pretty sure its the job of immigration enforcement/border agency to ensure that people entering the country have legitimate reasons and do so in a manner thats acceptable to current uk government policy.

Maybe so but it’s impractical.

It’s a nonsense folk are getting inundated with messages on a daily basis about “essential travel” and this is being allowed to happen.

 

 

[yoda]

More than 850 hospital deaths today, and care homes appear to have morphed into waiting rooms for mass graves. But the bottom of the barrel of UK commentators (Dan Hodges, Allison Pearson, etc), plus a handful of P&B's most enlightened posters, reckon we should be lifting restrictions soon and getting everything back to normal.

 

 

[welshbairn]

I'd have thought it's nearly all people trying to get home. Debatable whether that is essential or not, especially at the beginning when people were demanding charter flights to get them home from Wuhan.

[Thereisalight..]

It’s all well and good extending the lockdown, but what’s the point when flights are still arriving in the UK with passengers who aren’t being tested or having to self isolate once they’re here. Seems stupid 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Thereisalight..

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Taiwan showing us how it's done. Tuesday marked a month of no new cases and in total they've had just 393 cases and six people dead.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Maybe so but it’s impractical.
It’s a nonsense folk are getting inundated with messages on a daily basis about “essential travel” and this is being allowed to happen.
 
 

No i agree that there should be controls on travel into the country, but im just pointing out to some of the helen lovejoy ‘wont someone blame the polis’ hysteria is misplaced and this is actually nothing to do with them. A police officer has only very limited powers in terms of immigration act stuff.