Steven W Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, pandarilla said: Why are you getting defensive? I was just saying that if you don't know who that is then that shows your ignorance. Plenty of folk on here (and in tesco) have heard of her. If you're making the point that most Scottish folk are not particularly clued up about Scottish politics then i fully agree. We don't need to go to tesco to prove it. If you want to be more informed about who's running the country, then do something about it. 1 - cause you said I was ignorant 2 - I readily accept that's a failing on my part, but I'd be certain I was in the majority. I find it odd that in a time of economic collapse, Fiona Hyslop hasn't been more prominent in these daily briefings. (again, maybe I've missed her). I've seen it mentioned here that the SNP doesn't have much 'strength in depth'. They have a high quality leader (although I question some of her judgements just now) but after her there's not much. Maybe that's why I, and most of those in Tesco tonight, haven't heard of Fiona Hyslop? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: Well yes, me too. But despite claiming they would learn from others, they aren't adapting for here, and we aren't moving forward. It's like sitting at a junction on your driving test and not moving as you can see a car half a mile away. Their is no risk of the car hitting you if you don't pull out, of course, but sit there long enough and you will fail your test. No need to apologise btw. Jeez, that brings back memories of 55 years ago. Danke 3 hours ago, bendan said: If there were no downside to waiting and watching, that would be fine. But in reality there's damage being done every week we wait. But there could be damage if we let loose too soon. As NS said today, they (SG) have to strike a balance and for better or worse the SG make that decision. 3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: I am well aware different people have different priorities, and that's fine. But I also know (and if i'm wrong I appologise) that you are slightly older than most here, and as such an economic crash, with devastating job losses that will cause people to lose livelihoods and possibly their homes, will have much less of an impact on you. For most, avoiding that as much as is now possible, is a massive priority and much more pressing than indefinitely protecting an increasingly smaller number of vulnerable people from dying from Covid-19. Bless you - I'm 77 years auld and diabetic since at least 2008 so I accept we all have different views on this Covid-19 virus. But as NS said today, she, and her government were elected to make the decisions and that is what they are doing. 38 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: I think you are right on both points. It would be nice if the SNP were given a good shake in the election next year on the back of the way they have handled every step of this, but that won't happen. I ken you've answered this elsewhere but you are posting too many posts for me tae keep up but the ONLY alternative to voting SNP is to vote for a unionist party. 24 minutes ago, Steven W said: Correct (again). I can't remember the last time I didn't vote SNP (couple of decades ago I'd guess). And despite all this, I'll probably do so at the next election. But I've still got enough about me to question what's going on here and not necessarily support the policies because of who they came from. Surely voting SNP is to simply get independence. Then you vote for whatever party you want. In my case it would be the leftmost one (provided they stood in my part of the country). 23 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: True. However Scottish Labour, for example, could produce a manifesto that was absolutely outstanding, but due to their position as a unionist party they have no chance. Scotland needs, at least in Holyrood, a second pro-independence party to enable the SNP to face any real opposition. I've said before I support the SNP. But that doesn't mean I can't see they are perhaps getting a little too comfortable in assuming Scotland will support them blindly. As I wrote up above voting SNP is solely about independence then we go our separate ways. 15 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said: If Scottish labour took a pro-independence stance, or even a pro-referendum stance rather than full pro-indy, then they should be a credible threat to the SNP. I vote SNP in every election (other than those with a list vote, in which case I tend to put Greens on the list), as the overriding motivation to vote is to achieve an independent Scotland. Labour should represent the centre left, which is where a huge swathe of the indy movement sits. They've missed a trick not capitalising on that. Can you really see the Scottish Labour party taking a pro-independence stance? They would have to give up their slavish acceptance of Trident in Scottish waters. Also being a creditable (your words) threat to the SNP would surely allow unionist parties a way in at an election. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 27 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Supporting another independence referendum would probably cost Labour votes. Even if they tank they are still doing a public service by preventing the Tories from having a complete monopoly on the constitutional status quo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 My girlfriend is a teacher and has had her feet up since lockdown started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: Surely voting SNP is to simply get independence. Then you vote for whatever party you want. Yes. But in the 12 years or so they have been the largest party in Scotland they haven't achieved that, and it's arguably further away now than it was in 2014. They have an end game of independence, but also a day job in running Scotland until then. This is the first time they have really been asked a big question. When it was just about looking and communicating better than WM they absolutely smashed that because that is what they are best at. Now the focus has switched to them stepping up and leading Scotland, making big decisions along the way that they cannot blame on WM if they don't work, and they are floundering. They are fortunate that distrust of BJ is so high that they can get away with being ridiculously slow, despite the fact that England too is seeing cases and deaths drop. Edited June 12, 2020 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Yes. But in the 12 years or so they have been the largest party in Scotland they haven't achieved that, and it's arguably further away now than it was in 2014. They have an end game of independence, but also a day job in running Scotland until then. This is the first time they have really been asked a big question. When it was just about looking and communicating better than WM they absolutely smashed that because that is what they are best at. Now the focus has switched to them stepping up and leading Scotland, making big decisions along the way that they cannot blame on WM if they don't work, and they are floundering. They are fortunate that distrust of BJ is so high that they can get away with being ridiculously slow, despite the fact that England too is seeing cases and deaths drop.Spot on.As an SNP voter I still have a lack of confidence in them when it comes to making big decisions. Throughout this pandemic, they've have had a perfect opportunity to make some tough decisions and to show some real leadership - something which might have converted some previous no voters to yes voters (in the event of a second referendum, obviously).Instead, the SG's entire plan seems to be to sit a couple of weeks behind England and see what does/doesn't work down there. Other than communicating things a bit better than WM, they haven't really shown any initiative as far as I can tell. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: But there could be damage if we let loose too soon. As NS said today, they (SG) have to strike a balance and for better or worse the SG make that decision. It's true that it's up to them to make the decision, but I really hope they understand what the consequences are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said: Spot on. As an SNP voter I still have a lack of confidence in them when it comes to making big decisions. Throughout this pandemic, they've have had a perfect opportunity to make some tough decisions and to show some real leadership - something which might have converted some previous no voters to yes voters (in the event of a second referendum, obviously). Instead, the SG's entire plan seems to be to sit a couple of weeks behind England and see what does/doesn't work down there. Other than communicating things a bit better than WM, they haven't really shown any initiative as far as I can tell. I see plenty of people making this sort of comment, so I'm interested to know what decisions you think could/should have been taken differently? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 45 minutes ago, Wee Willie said: Can you really see the Scottish Labour party taking a pro-independence stance? They would have to give up their slavish acceptance of Trident in Scottish waters. Also being a creditable (your words) threat to the SNP would surely allow unionist parties a way in at an election. No, I can't see it, unfortunately. If they did, I'd vote for them. It might allow the unionists back in a bit, but I don't think to the extent where they end up in power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 What does virginton actually do for employment? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, RH33 said: What does virginton actually do for employment? Professional c**t 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Snafu said: Looks like the long list of legal actions against the UK government and possibly the Scottish government over COVID-19 care home deaths has is now underway, this is something that will hang over their heads for years and won't go away. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/12/matt-hancock-faces-legal-action-from-daughter-of-covid-19-care-home-victim https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/880288/COVID-19_hospital_discharge_service_requirements.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886140/admission__and_care_of_residents_during_covid19_incident_in_a_care_home.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/879639/covid-19-adult-social-care-action-plan.pdf This is the single largest f**k up in which the Governments cannot deflect any blame. You don't need SAGE to tell you that if a highly contagious virus gets into a place full of old people that are not in good health, then there will a deluge of deaths. It really is that simple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Snafu said: Looks like the long list of legal actions against the UK government and possibly the Scottish government over COVID-19 care home deaths has is now underway, this is something that will hang over their heads for years and won't go away. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/12/matt-hancock-faces-legal-action-from-daughter-of-covid-19-care-home-victim https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/880288/COVID-19_hospital_discharge_service_requirements.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886140/admission__and_care_of_residents_during_covid19_incident_in_a_care_home.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/879639/covid-19-adult-social-care-action-plan.pdf Is the UK government liable? I would think it would be Care Home owner or the local authority? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 English 'R number' going the wrong way, says Beth Rigby, via Sage 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, 101 said: Is the UK government liable? I would think it would be Care Home owner or the local authority? There seem to have been cases where the NHS used spare capacity in homes to free up beds in hospitals by transferring untested elderly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) So long as cases continue to fall overall I don't see the panic over R tbh. This is where polititicians etc will regret focusing on such details that most people don't understand. ETA i've spotted my typo but it's amusing so i'll leave it Edited June 12, 2020 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 24 minutes ago, Michael W said: This is the single largest f**k up in which the Governments cannot deflect any blame. You don't need SAGE to tell you that if a highly contagious virus gets into a place full of old people that are not in good health, then there will a deluge of deaths. It really is that simple. It's not just that. They clearly withdrew NHS services from care home residents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, pandarilla said: https://www.thenational.scot/news/18512374.common-weals-blueprint-new-scotland-grounded-reality/ Common weal have released phase 1 of their economic recovery plan. Main ideas : - transforming the economy doesn't need major state subsidy, any subsidies should be handed to the public in the form of vouchers - every Scottish person should receive £100 voucher for a Scottish hotel /hospitality venue - the Scottish national investment bank should be given the powers to be a real bank, allowing it to support small to medium sized business ideas in Scotland - ending the public procurement deal which ties councils and other organizations into using a set provider (always a multinational owned outside Scotland). Schools and councils and the like should be able to order from local producers A £100 voucher for a fucking hotel stay (and a £30 voucher for a local restaurant as well) is like using a sticking plaster to deal with a ruptured artery. That is a small time as f**k agenda for an organisation that styles itself on 'big ideas'. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: English 'R number' going the wrong way, says Beth Rigby, via Sage Again, a rising R is not being reflected in the daily case numbers, which are still trending down (albeit not as quickly as one would've liked) Either the estimate is wrong, or the initial estimate of the R number was incorrect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: So long as cases continue to fall overall I don't see the panic over R tbh. This is where polititicians etc will regret focusing on such details that most people don't understand. ETA i've spotted my typo but it's amusing so i'll leave it Unless I've misunderstood R, if R gets above 1 then cases will grow (ie every infected person, on average, will infect at least 1 other). That's why. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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