Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[peasy23]

[Donathan]

1 hour ago, John MacLean said:

I get right fed up by people who reference the restrictions we've been under in terms of intervention by a nanny state. 

It's just utter libertarian nonsense. Not least because we're looking at approaching 70 years since we last had anything like a functioning nanny welfare state designed to protect the most vulnerable in society.  

A fit for purpose welfare state wouldn't have prevented the virus arriving here but we might have had a healthier country, better equipped to deal with it. 

We could have avoided the severity of the first Lockdown because our NHS wouldn't have been in danger of being overwhelmed. How good would it have been if we had had a well funded, state of the art National Health Service that instead of banging pots and pans for we could look at with genuine pride. 

People would be less afraid of losing their jobs because the state would be there to protect and not punish. 

Typically it is invariably the people that decry the nanny state that are also the people who cite Sweden as a great example of how to deal with Covid-19 but ignore the fact that their welfare state allowed them to take the approach they did. 

It's the libertarian, let the market decide and don't impinge upon people's 'freedom' approach that left us so vulnerable and it is the same libertarian, don't need face masks, open things up and just look after yourself approach that makes recovery so fucking difficult. 

It's not been too much state intervention that we've had over the last couple of generations but not enough. 

Ach, I'm just a grumpy old man fed up to the back teeth of all of this and the levels of utter selfishness that I encounter on a daily basis. And to think I was told that this was no longer a public health crisis. 

 

 

We are pretty much biologically wired to fend for ourselves and our families and friends. 

 

Claiming this is not the case it utter virtue signalling nonsense

[s_dog]

46 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

They are almost certainly going to do that again once any temporary circuit breaker measures are lifted and things revert to doing nothing different. There is no quick easy fix on this other than reaching herd immunity either by letting things run their natural course (keeping schools, pubs, workplaces open means that will almost certainly be what unfolds over the next few weeks) or through a vaccine (which may be a very long way off).

There is no quick and easy fix on this, that's the whole point. A vaccine will help, but we don't even know yet how long a working vaccine will work for. Herd immunity is not the answer either. 

https://medium.com/@gidmk/the-facts-about-herd-immunity-and-covid-19-3230616b70a3

 

29 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That in itself is a complete contradiction in terms. I'm not for the 'do nothing and let the virus take its course' approach, but what we have at the moment are half-baked plans to contain something that simply can't be contained without complete isolation. 

It's not a complete contradiction, obviously there's a clash, but it's about balancing it and accepting there's a price to pay. Live your life as much as possible but minimise your interactions with others outside your immediate family. It's not perfect, but its something we might have to live with for a least a while. You can still meet your family & friends in a pub, cafe, restaurant etc, but you'll do so less often because of the restrictions. It might be a vain attempt at stopping the rise of infections, along with all the other 'half-baked' plans, but what is the point in not even trying and instead choosing between either complete isolation or doing nothing and leaving it to fate?

 

 

[scottmcleanscontacts]

I get right fed up by people who reference the restrictions we've been under in terms of intervention by a nanny state. 
It's just utter libertarian nonsense. Not least because we're looking at approaching 70 years since we last had anything like a functioning nanny welfare state designed to protect the most vulnerable in society.  
A fit for purpose welfare state wouldn't have prevented the virus arriving here but we might have had a healthier country, better equipped to deal with it. 
We could have avoided the severity of the first Lockdown because our NHS wouldn't have been in danger of being overwhelmed. How good would it have been if we had had a well funded, state of the art National Health Service that instead of banging pots and pans for we could look at with genuine pride. 
People would be less afraid of losing their jobs because the state would be there to protect and not punish. 
Typically it is invariably the people that decry the nanny state that are also the people who cite Sweden as a great example of how to deal with Covid-19 but ignore the fact that their welfare state allowed them to take the approach they did. 
It's the libertarian, let the market decide and don't impinge upon people's 'freedom' approach that left us so vulnerable and it is the same libertarian, don't need face masks, open things up and just look after yourself approach that makes recovery so fucking difficult. 
It's not been too much state intervention that we've had over the last couple of generations but not enough. 
Ach, I'm just a grumpy old man fed up to the back teeth of all of this and the levels of utter selfishness that I encounter on a daily basis. And to think I was told that this was no longer a public health crisis. 
 

Amen.

Libertarians in the truest sense are often the biggest 'pull the ladder up' types when the going gets tough.

I won't lie, there's a Socialist in me and when I see the way that our society is going, not just with this pandemic but more generally I sometimes wish there was more state intervention.

It's needed - your comments about how our NHS should be state of the art are spot on. It might well be free at the point of use but there's still an incredible amount of money ploughed into it by the vast majority of the population. The state of it is a fucking disgrace for the most part. Mostly this is down to bureaucracy - and the way the NHS operates at management level.

[Eddie Hitler]

12 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

We are pretty much biologically wired to fend for ourselves and our families and friends. 

 

Claiming this is not the case it utter virtue signalling nonsense

Correct but it's also the case that you 'fend for yourself and your family and friends ' by not letting c*nts take your protections from you and that, when you otherwise lack power, you manage that by not being divided and ruled by those c*nts so that they can strip them away.

[Hedgecutter]

Not that it makes much difference now, but deary me...  

Quote

MP Margaret Ferrier is believed to have attended Mass at a church in Glasgow after showing Covid symptoms.

The Daily Record reported that Ms Ferrier gave a reading as she joined up to 50 parishioners at St Mungo's RC church in Townhead on 27 September.

She later travelled to London before returning to Glasgow by train after testing positive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54433535

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It's not a complete contradiction, obviously there's a clash, but it's about balancing it and accepting there's a price to pay. Live your life as much as possible but minimise your interactions with others outside your immediate family. It's not perfect, but its something we might have to live with for a least a while. You can still meet your family & friends in a pub, cafe, restaurant etc, but you'll do so less often because of the restrictions. It might be a vain attempt at stopping the rise of infections, along with all the other 'half-baked' plans, but what is the point in not even trying and instead choosing between either complete isolation or doing nothing and leaving it to fate?
 
 

Part of the problem is that some measures are just being flouted because we just don't enforce them properly - personally fed up of the "why I don't fare a face mask" bullshit excuses.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, s_dog said:

There is no quick and easy fix on this, that's the whole point. A vaccine will help, but we don't even know yet how long a working vaccine will work for. Herd immunity is not the answer either. 

https://medium.com/@gidmk/the-facts-about-herd-immunity-and-covid-19-3230616b70a3

 

I wouldn't take what's in that link as gospel. What happens in Sweden over the next few months relative to what happens in western European countries that implemented strict lockdowns will provide a lot of answers in that context.

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

This is England for last week. Assume we'll be very similar.

Great patter when hospitality settings will bear the brunt of enhanced restrictions given that they are low for transmission per that graph. Wonder how big a dent sending the students home might make? 

This is showing a wide gap with Scotland in terms of infections occurring in households though. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Michael W

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Not that it makes much difference now, but deary me...  

MP Margaret Ferrier is believed to have attended Mass at a church in Glasgow after showing Covid symptoms.
The Daily Record reported that Ms Ferrier gave a reading as she joined up to 50 parishioners at St Mungo's RC church in Townhead on 27 September.
She later travelled to London before returning to Glasgow by train after testing positive.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54433535

 
Mental is the only thing I can say.

Did she also have a brain bypass when she got Covid-19?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Great patter when hospitality settings will bear the brunt of enhanced restrictions given that they low for transmission per that graph. Wonder how big a dent sending the students home might make? 
This is showing a wide gap with Scotland in terms of infections occurring in households though. 

I think we might be getting to the point where we have a different strategy depending on if you are symptomatic or asymptomatic or in a vulnerable group.

Sad but true.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Not that it makes much difference now, but deary me...  

 

Bet she gobbed in the wine.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 minute ago, Michael W said:

Great patter when hospitality settings will bear the brunt of enhanced restrictions given that they low for transmission per that graph. Wonder how big a dent sending the students home might make? 

This is showing a wide gap with Scotland in terms of infections occurring in households though. 

That enforces the point I made that hitting the hospitality industry once again is a cheap shot based not on science but on political, take the easy way out reasoning. 

It also reinforces the fact that transmission of the virus occurs mostly inside. Which makes the decision not to allow limited crowds at sporting events nothing more than another political decision.

[madwullie]

34 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

We are pretty much biologically wired to fend for ourselves and our families and friends. 

 

Claiming this is not the case it utter virtue signalling nonsense

Let's just stick 3000 years of moral and political philosophy in the bin then. Settled by @Donathan. Sit the f**k down John Stuart Mill m8

Edited October 6, 2020 by madwullie

[madwullie]

15 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Not that it makes much difference now, but deary me...  

 

She needs to get herself to f**k stat

[NotThePars]

 
We are pretty much biologically wired to fend for ourselves and our families and friends. 
 
Claiming this is not the case it utter virtue signalling nonsense

Shut every anthropology department down this man has cracked it

[Szamo's_Ammo]

I wonder when Matt Hancock will next be able to do this again. Multi-talented.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Szamo's_Ammo

[Clockwork]

What's the point though in big picture terms? A vaccine isn't just around the corner unless we are very lucky, so any kind of circuit breaker is just a case of kicking the can down the road for a bit. The same issues will still have to be dealt with whenever the lockdown rules are opened up until/unless there is herd immunity. More and more people are seeing through the propaganda now, so maybe try an honest intelligent discussion on this and treat the electorate like adults rather than naughty schoolchildren that need strict control by a nanny state?
Something along the lines of there is more than likely not going to be a miraculous painless exit strategy available just around the corner, the economy and other health issues that have been receiving less attention than they normally would have are also very important as well so we can't keep acting as if COVID-19 is the only issue that matters. Here's what you need to do to be able to get on with something resembling normality while minimising the risks for yourself, the people you care about most and your friends and neighbours. Good luck!

Agree entirely, it will achieve very little. A quick fix pending the development of a safe vaccine isn’t available to a government trying to balance the health and wealth of the nation. I’d rather they were completely honest and just ask people to stick to safety guidelines as much as possible. They won’t change the behaviour of those who continue to be reckless anyway. It’s those with long term conditions who continue to live in fear of their health and the people who are desperately afraid of losing their jobs and livelihoods that deserve the utmost attention. The random one-off tactical measures that the government seems so intent on, are just confusing and counterproductive.

Some measures are just downright cruel, the news story at lunchtime of the two guys down south, reprimanded by some utter c**t of an official at their fathers funeral (ordering them to move away from comforting their poor Mother), is a horrific example of how common sense has been eroded in officialdom, when it comes to C19. Let the sensible majority quietly work their way through this, it’s the only option.

[smpar]

On 02/10/2020 at 07:25, smpar said:

In 2 weeks’ time he’ll be absolutely fine and it’ll give be a convenient excuse for him to peddle the “this Chinese bug isn’t a big deal” pish.

I thought he’d at least be able to wait a week or so.

[NotThePars]

5 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)

 

Wait til you hear about that Mao fella